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UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

arstechnica.com

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Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#231

Post by tolien »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #223
tolien wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't think this counts as "arrested for online posts"? You've definitely missed some context. For example, and fairly significantly: > Connolly previously admitted intending to stir up racial hatred. If you plead guilty to a charge, there's not much defense left. The offence she admitted to doesn't even take account of whether it's committed online - it's law that was passed in 1986. An aggravating factor that…

So the context: she posted similar things online multiple times, she pleaded guilty, and the law in question can apply to offline activity as well -- all right, but all this still literally translates into "arrested for online posts". She didn't throw rocks, she didn't set things on fire, she didn't stab anyone -- it was her speech that got her a multi-year jail term. This alone makes free speech proponents upset, re…

I wasn't saying the context I gave was an exhaustive list, I was suggesting that having Googled her name and maybe skimmed a couple of news articles, you might need to do some more reading before forming too much of an opinion.

> She didn't throw rocks, she didn't set things on fire, she didn't stab anyone -- it was her speech that got her a multi-year jail term.

Your contention seems to be that incitement shouldn't be an offence?

That's at odds with legal systems all over the world, including the US, where Brandenburg v Ohio [0] holds that if inflammatory speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action" that is an exception to the First Amendment and can be prosecuted, which seems to be at odds with "regardless of whether there were riots ongoing or not".

The original point of my first post in this thread was that lumping together arrests for stalking, incitement to violence and other forms of harassment to produce a big scary number makes the argument seem utterly dishonest. The fact that so many "free speech proponents" fixate on one example when, if the stated number is true, there should be thousands of examples every year is a good demonstration of that.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#232

Post by mzajc »

chatmasta wrote: post #151
jagged-chisel wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI and encryption are technically orthogonal. But they’ll use any guise to further their agenda.

They’re closely related for some use cases, like client-side content screening. If they can’t have a backdoor then maybe they’ll push for a local LLM to spy on the user’s activity and phone home when it sees something bad.

Presumably without alerting the user and with thresholds set by the police. That's just a backdoor with extra steps.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#233

Post by Arch-TK »

tolien wrote: post #192
miohtama wrote: post #164

What could go wrong? The UK is the same country that arrests 12,000 people a year for posting online. > Now every force in the country has a team sifting through people’s posts trying to determine what crosses an undefined threshold. “It is a complete nightmare,” one officer admits Britain’s police are restricting speech in worrying ways https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/05/15/britains-police... From The Economi…

[citation needed], your Economist article [0] quotes 30 a day (which would be > Under these laws, British police arrest more than 30 people a day for online posts, double the rate in 2017. Some are serious offenders, such as stalkers. How many of those 30 were for "online posts" (and of which nature - Lucy Connolly is a favourite example cited by the likes of Vance, but she was arrested for trying to stir up racial t…

Fortunately in the UK it is illegal to lie on the internet...

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#234

Post by FirmwareBurner »

giantg2 wrote: post #225
geek_at wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe we don't value free speech as high as the US. There is "forbidden speech" (around lying about Holocaust related topics and insulting people online) and I think it's a good thing in total. You spew out the worst of the worst on the internet you should be able to be held accountable

US has plenty of arrests for terroristic threats and similar. Many of these are online now. 12k arrests per year related to online posts doesn't sound all that high.

Making terrorist threats are different than insulting some's religion, complaining about illegal immigrant crimes or shitting on politicians online. It's disingenuous to argue they're in the same ballpark that EU and US speech is similarly policed because it's not.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#235

Post by magwa101 »

miohtama wrote: post #164

What could go wrong? The UK is the same country that arrests 12,000 people a year for posting online. > Now every force in the country has a team sifting through people’s posts trying to determine what crosses an undefined threshold. “It is a complete nightmare,” one officer admits Britain’s police are restricting speech in worrying ways https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/05/15/britains-police... From The Economi…

[dead]

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#236

Post by FirmwareBurner »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #123
standardUser wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If devoted half the resources to catching child abusers as we do to stop people from getting high after work, we'd have a whole hell of a lot fewer abused children. But, priorities!

> If devoted half the resources to catching child abusers as we do to stop people from getting high after work, we'd have a whole hell of a lot fewer abused children. There are two problems here: (1) We devote more resources to catching child abusers. There are all kinds of legal "if you see something, say something" requirements that make every doctor, nurse, and schoolteacher in the country part of the effort to do…

>We devote more resources to catching child abusers.

The Epstein list proves we do more to protect child abusers.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#237

Post by lotsofpulp »

wkat4242 wrote: post #173
lotsofpulp wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta subsidizes a very large proportion of the world’s communication (in the form of Whatsapp/Instagram/Facebook). Even if 98% of it is unnecessary garbage, the functionality for that last 2% has provided a ton of utility to billions of people.

Except they make money so they don't subsidise it. They get paid for it but through our data. Which is what we don't want here in Europe anyway.

Subsidy in this context was meant to convey that all the bandwidth and infrastructure that allows for global communication for billions of people is paid for by the advertising Meta sells, money that obviously disappears if Meta disappears.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#238

Post by jansper39 »

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #178
HPsquared wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12k a year?!? That is a staggering number. I wonder what the stats were in East Germany (though they may have had harsher punishments.. that can be ratcheted up later though once the system is in place)

Per gpt: Estimates vary, but roughly 250,000–300,000 people were imprisoned for political reasons over the GDR’s 41-year existence—an average of ~6,000–7,000 annually. Just wow. I wonder if we will study this in history textbooks about downfall of UK

As a resident of the UK I can safely say, no we will not, as we are categorically not arresting 12K people a year for simply posting things online.

I would be more likely to include some sections about the current US administration though.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#239

Post by jansper39 »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #221
miohtama wrote: post #164

What could go wrong? The UK is the same country that arrests 12,000 people a year for posting online. > Now every force in the country has a team sifting through people’s posts trying to determine what crosses an undefined threshold. “It is a complete nightmare,” one officer admits Britain’s police are restricting speech in worrying ways https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/05/15/britains-police... From The Economi…

We need to apply sanctions, and end all intelligence sharing with the UK until they stop this nonsense.

How do you expect to spy on US citizens if you don't get the five eyes to help out?

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#240

Post by jajuuka »

lenerdenator wrote: post #17

That surprises me, honestly. Makes you wonder what the British government got in return for forgetting about the encryption loicence idea.

That's my thinking. With all the people who are a part of this story why would the UK government back off and no longer want to spy on iPhone users.
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