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Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

thealgorithmicbridge.com

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Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess a counter, is that we don't need to understand how they work to produce a useful output. They are a magical black box magic 8 ball, that more likely than not gives you the right answer. Maybe people can explain the black box, and make the magic 8 ball more accurate. But at the end of the day, with a very complex system it will always be some level of black box unreliable magic 8 ball. So the question then is…

THAT. This is what I don't get. Instead of fixing a complex system let's build more complex system based on it knowing that it might not always work. When you have a complex system that does not always work correctly, you start disassembling it to simpler and simpler components until you find the one - or maybe several - that are not working as designed, you fix whatever you found wrong with them, put the complex sys…

Ok, so take the example of RF communications:

You need to send data, but only 50% at random comes through. You could move things closer together, send at higher power, improve the signal modulation to give you higher snr.

All of these things are done, this is improving the base system. But at the end of the day rf is in the real world, and the real world sucks. Random shit happens to make your signal not come through.

So what do you do? You design fault tolerant systems.

You add error correction to detect and automatically fix errors on receive.

You add tcp, to automatically retransmit missed packets.

You add validation to make sure that the received data is sane.

You use ecc ram to validate that an ion from the sun has not bit flipped your data.

These are extremely complex hierarchies of systems, and fundamentally they are unreliable. So you design the whole thing with error margins and fall back handling.

Yes a better understanding of the underlying system in question does allow you to make more efficient error correction/validation, but it does not change the fact that you need error correction.

And in the case of RF signals, for example, the most optimal design is not zero errors. In fact they way you design it is so that for a given snr, you expect a given probability of error. To get the maximum throughput, you design your error correction coding to handle that. And because even with that, there can be edge cases, you design higher level Mac layer logic to resend.

Yes, a better understanding of the error cases will make the error correction (agent loops) in llms better over time, but it will not remove the error correction.

there may be situations similar to RF, where a less accurate, but faster model, with more validation is preferred for a variety of engineering reasons, either throughput/cost/creativity/etc.

You need to look at llms as black boxes of the physical world, that we question, and get a answer. At the level of complexity it is more akin to physics, than software, there is no reliability inherent to them, only what we design around.

And there are tons of people doing the fundamental physical research into how they work, and how to make them work better.

But that is a completely different avenue of research from how to make useful systems out of unreliable components.

You do not need to fully model the path propagation of em waves in order to make a reliable communication system, it might help, but it will be fragile if you solely rely on it.

And if you engineer a reliable system architecture, it does not get fully invalidated when the scientists build better models of the underlying systems. You may modify the error correction codes but they do not go away.

For example the original Morse code, had hand handmade validation checks, handshakes etc. the architecture did not get wholly replaced with the advent of Shannon's information theory, even if some of the specific methods did.

And WW1/WW2 telegraphs, and communications were still useful despite not understanding the underlying information theory and being unreliable in many situations.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Catch me if you Can movie, Leo diCaprio’s character wears a surgeon’s gown and confidently says “I concur”. What I’m hearing here is that you are willing to get your surgery done by him and not by one of the real doctors - if he is capable of pronouncing enough doctor-sounding phrases.

Leo diCaprio's character says nothing of substance in that scene. If you ask an LLM a question about most subjects, it will give you a highly intelligent, substantive answer.

No. It will give you a long answer with correct grammar, punctuation, use of wide vocabulary, and persuasive sounding arguments. What we are learning nowadays is that among humans, that is highly correlated with highly intelligent, substantive answers from intelligent, practiced subject matter experts.

Among AIs, such text is merely correlated with having read a lot of literature. It's sometimes right. It's sometimes wrong. But you don't know, and any attempt to defer to "oh well it sounds persuasive", which may have served you okay with smart humans, will end up failing in spectacular and unpredictable ways.

I do not say this because I don't find AI's interesting, or even useful. They are, for tasks they are suited too. But there are so many people essentially arguing they are suited to all tasks, which they clearly aren't

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredibly bizarre take. You can build more capacity without frying the planet. Many ai companies are directly investing in nuclear plants for this reason, for example.

Several companies investing in AI Have made commitments to renewable and clean energy. However at most half of this increased energy demand is expected to come from renewables through 2030 and fossil fuels will continue to be heavily utilized for the massive data center build outs occurring beyond that, according to the International Energy Agency’s April 2025 report. Nuclear energy has long build outs of 10+ years.…

> However at most half of this increased energy demand is expected to come from renewables through 2030

You know that’s actually very good, right?

> Nuclear energy has long build outs of 10+ years.

Good news is degrowthers have left us with a long list of deactivated plants that can simply be restarted much sooner than that.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#234
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we don’t know an enormous amount about the brain, we do know a pretty good bit about individual neurons, and I think it’s a good guess, given current science, to say that a solidly accurate simulation of a large number of neurons would lead to a kind of intelligence loosely analogous to that found in animals. I’d completely understand if you disagree, but I consider it a good guess. If that’s the case, then the…

It's not clear to me that these approaches aren't already being tried. Firstly, by some researchers in the big labs (some of which I'm sure are funded to try random moonshot bets like the above), at non-product labs working on hard problems (eg World Labs), and especially within academia where researchers have taken inspiration from biology before, and today are even better funded and hungry for new discoveries. Cert…

>I do think the pressure to be a paper machine limits people from trying bets that are realistically very likely to fail.

Oh certainly. I also think it’s just a sweet spot of efficiency and scalability that transformers happen to occupy. A new paradigm will need to be more effective at similar cost.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several companies investing in AI Have made commitments to renewable and clean energy. However at most half of this increased energy demand is expected to come from renewables through 2030 and fossil fuels will continue to be heavily utilized for the massive data center build outs occurring beyond that, according to the International Energy Agency’s April 2025 report. Nuclear energy has long build outs of 10+ years.…

> However at most half of this increased energy demand is expected to come from renewables through 2030 You know that’s actually very good, right? > Nuclear energy has long build outs of 10+ years. Good news is degrowthers have left us with a long list of deactivated plants that can simply be restarted much sooner than that.

Rapidly increased energy use from fossil fuels (despite up to half coming from renewables), is simply not good enough. We are likely in the process of exceeding the 1.5 degree threshold targeted by the Paris Climate Accords. Making gestures toward renewable energy while drastically increasing fossil fuel usage is dangerously irresponsible.

As for degrowthers - that’s really not the reason nuclear plants have been shuttered, historically - rather it’s aging infrastructure as plants reached the end of their operational timelines, and economic competition (historically) from fossil fuels. “Degrowth”, on the other hand, is a recent ideology.

Nor is the expected energy use from shuttered nuclear expected to address the extreme energy usage from AI data centers. The IEA already forecasts with unshuttering in mind. Sadly your notion that unshuttering will be enough to make AI energy clean just isn’t true once we take sober stock of our current situation. And, as truly dire as our circumstances are, we are better off acknowledging them with an honest appraisal so we can make the optimal decisions around our predicament - rather than digging our hole even deeper in the comfort of our rose colored glasses and Pollyanna ideologies.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#236
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related to your point: if these tools are close to having super-human intelligence, and they make humans so much more productive, why aren't we seeing improvements at a much faster rate than we are now? Why aren't inherent problems like hallucination already solved, or at least less of an issue? Surely the smartest researchers and engineers money can buy would be dogfooding, no? This is the main point that proves to…

> if these tools are close to having super-human intelligence, and they make humans so much more productive, why aren't we seeing improvements at a much faster rate than we are now? Why aren't inherent problems like hallucination already solved, or at least less of an issue? Surely the smartest researchers and engineers money can buy would be dogfooding, no? Hallucination does seem to be much less of an issue now. I…

"hallucinations" CAN'T fade away. They are the one and only thing LLMs can do. If you remove that your output would be absolutely nothing. It is intrinsic to how they work. Anyone claiming they can eliminating has a bridge to sell you.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is different. Most systems aren't designed to be a slot machine.

Yet RAG systems can perform quite well, so it's a definite proof that you can build something reliable most of the time out of something not reliable in the first place.

only if you lower your standards as to what "quite well". The biggest con by the AI industry so far is convincing people that 90% is somehow "quite well".

90% is only enough for uninformed people to buy into it, and fuel the hype train. 90% is low enough to be pretty much unusable in most production environments.

This is like coding FizzBuzz but only emitting Fizz, Buzz or a number, and skiping FizzBuzz, then claiming that your system is 93.3% accurate because only every 15th output is wrong. 93.3% is utter crap.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THAT. This is what I don't get. Instead of fixing a complex system let's build more complex system based on it knowing that it might not always work. When you have a complex system that does not always work correctly, you start disassembling it to simpler and simpler components until you find the one - or maybe several - that are not working as designed, you fix whatever you found wrong with them, put the complex sys…

Ok, so take the example of RF communications: You need to send data, but only 50% at random comes through. You could move things closer together, send at higher power, improve the signal modulation to give you higher snr. All of these things are done, this is improving the base system. But at the end of the day rf is in the real world, and the real world sucks. Random shit happens to make your signal not come through…

Except that a corrupt packet can easily be detected when compared to a valid packet (is the checksum valid?). There is an algorithm to execute that can tell you, with high confidence, whether a given packet is corrupt or not.

In an LLM a token is a token. There are no semantics to anything in there. In order to answer the question "is this a good answer or not?" you would need a model that somehow doesn't hallucinate, because the tokens themselves don't have any mathematical properties such that they can be manipulated. A "hallucinated" token cannot, in any mathematical way, be distinguished from one that "wasn't hallucinated". That's a big difference.

All of the above stuff you mentioned is mathematically proven to improve the desired performance target in a controlled, well understood way. We know their limitations, we know their strengths. They are backed by solid foundations, and can be relied upon.

This is not comparable to an LLM where the best you can do is just "pull more heuristics out of someone's ass and hope for the best"

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leo diCaprio's character says nothing of substance in that scene. If you ask an LLM a question about most subjects, it will give you a highly intelligent, substantive answer.

No. It will give you a long answer with correct grammar, punctuation, use of wide vocabulary, and persuasive sounding arguments. What we are learning nowadays is that among humans, that is highly correlated with highly intelligent, substantive answers from intelligent, practiced subject matter experts. Among AIs, such text is merely correlated with having read a lot of literature. It's sometimes right. It's sometimes…

You are seriously underselling what LLMs do nowadays. It's not just that the grammar is correct. In most cases, the answers are substantive and factually correct.

You can ask fairly complicated questions, and it will usually reason correctly and give you a high-quality answer. I ask about programming, physics and math, and it usually answers on the level of someone with a high level of training in those fields.

It sometimes fails in strange ways, but you can't just write off all of the high-quality answers LLMs give as nothing more than plausible-sounding English.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#240
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hammer is not a perfect analogy because of how simple it is, but sure let's go with it. Imagine that occasionally when getting in contact with the nail it shatters to bits, or goes through the nail as it were liquid, or blows up, or does something else completely unexpected. Wouldn't you want to fix it? And sure, it might require deep understanding of the nature of the materials and forces involved. That's what I'd d…

Use the human brain as an example then. We don't really know how it works. I mean, we know there's neurotransmitters and neural pathways etc (much like nodes in a transformer), but we don't know how exactly intelligence or our thinking process works. We're also pretty good at working around human 'hallucinations' and other inaccuracies. Whether it be someone having a bad day, a brain fart, or individual clumsiness. e…

We don't build brains though, we use them (or, more accurately, we _are_ them) out of necessity. LLMs are our creation, and we have a say in how/whether to use them.
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