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Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

proton.me

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#231

Post by wredcoll »

8fingerlouie wrote: post #26
andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

> There are other options out there. That's the catch-22, said ecosystem is what they want to use because it's considered "secure", but it's only considered secure because it's closed. It's the same with all the other stuff like frequent locations, photos, etc. It's a walled garden yes, but one that protects your data from bad actors (like Meta heisting whatever they can get their grubby little hands on), and the pri…

This continues to be a wild take. People aren't demanding that the app store host every application someone submits, they're asking for apple not to take a cut of things other people sell their own customers.

Also, facebook can already be a "bad actor" right now, they just have to pay apple their 30%.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#232

Post by SteveNuts »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #222
wavemode wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's specifically anticompetitive for Apple to force app developers to go through Apple Payments (with a 30% fee to Apple) for all purchases, otherwise their app is disallowed from being sold on the App store. There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors - it's purely a strategy for increased revenue for Apple. In antitrust terms, it is a form of Vend…

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting. Not every problem is technological.

I feel like that could still be accomplished by allowing multiple payment backends, and charging them a reasonable fee to integrate (to cover the cost of development/maintenance of the APIs and whatever overhead to account for dealing with abuse/fraud).

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#233

Post by socalgal2 »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

> There are other options out there.

This isn't about the a consumer's right to buy a different phone. It's about a business's right to do business with customers without Apple in the middle. And it's specifically about Apple's monopoly power over those businesses. No government is going to accept that some company, Apple, gets that kind of control.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#234

Post by wredcoll »

_benton wrote: post #163
whstl wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to major interests of "companies, countries, economies and other users of phones", this is inarguably small. Especially in the light of the only real complaint being that "there is a possibility of loss of security".

The difference is that the choice to purchase devices that offer the freedom you want is available, if not the primary option. I don't wish to take that away from you. However you are advocating for the only choice for a locked down device be legislated out of existence. There is a fundamental difference here!

> However you are advocating for the only choice for a locked down device be legislated out of existence

Why would you make up something like this? What's the benefit to you?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#235

Post by dgoldstein0 »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #222
wavemode wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's specifically anticompetitive for Apple to force app developers to go through Apple Payments (with a 30% fee to Apple) for all purchases, otherwise their app is disallowed from being sold on the App store. There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors - it's purely a strategy for increased revenue for Apple. In antitrust terms, it is a form of Vend…

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting. Not every problem is technological.

Perhaps then there should be a subscription API, so Apple could make the nice "see all your subscriptions in one place" UI? Or maybe banks could better offer this as part of online banking for credit cards. Not sure the right place to put this.

Anyhow I do see your point that narrowing user options can lead to better UX - if you actually like all the tradeoffs they make. The problem is if you don't, your SoL. And in this case the trade-off is Apple taking a giant extra cut so... I think it's reasonable that folks don't like that trade-off.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#236

Post by wavemode »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #222
wavemode wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's specifically anticompetitive for Apple to force app developers to go through Apple Payments (with a 30% fee to Apple) for all purchases, otherwise their app is disallowed from being sold on the App store. There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors - it's purely a strategy for increased revenue for Apple. In antitrust terms, it is a form of Vend…

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting. Not every problem is technological.

There is always a customer experience reason. Every anticompetitive company that has ever existed has benefited from the customer experience of everything being in one place and coming from one company. Unfortunately, "my product benefits from being anticompetitive" is not a valid justification for anticompetitive practices.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#237

Post by trinsic2 »

> Earlier today, Proton filed court papers in the US District Court for the Northern District of California to join an existing class-action lawsuit against Apple. Proton is a plaintiff in the case, but we are representing and suing on behalf of a class of similarly situated developers. Challenging one of the most powerful corporations in the history of capitalism is not a decision we make lightly, but Proton has long championed online freedom, privacy, and security, and we believe this action is necessary to ensure the internet of the future lives up to its potential.

Challenging one of the most powerful corporations in history, god I feel so much safer already. Sounds like PR campaign speak. I trust Proton as much as I trust Microsoft.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#238

Post by INGSOCIALITE »

socalgal2 wrote: post #233
andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

> There are other options out there. This isn't about the a consumer's right to buy a different phone. It's about a business's right to do business with customers without Apple in the middle. And it's specifically about Apple's monopoly power over those businesses. No government is going to accept that some company, Apple, gets that kind of control.

so then i should be able to use any ink in my printer then...

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#239

Post by bitpush »

trinsic2 wrote: post #237

> Earlier today, Proton filed court papers in the US District Court for the Northern District of California to join an existing class-action lawsuit against Apple. Proton is a plaintiff in the case, but we are representing and suing on behalf of a class of similarly situated developers. Challenging one of the most powerful corporations in the history of capitalism is not a decision we make lightly, but Proton has lon…

Are you seriously suggesting that Apple is too big to fail/be questioned/be scrutinized, or worse - can do no wrong?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#240

Post by briandw »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

I don't see people making the same arguments about Steam, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc, etc. Why is Apple special here? Other companies make stores that deliver application and developers don't get to tell them what to do. That's fine apparently, just not for Apple.
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