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Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

nytimes.com

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Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#231

Post by bertil »

kragen wrote: post #207
JimBlackwood wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is however appropriate for a group of nations to agree that a person who has committed crimes (according to them) is to be arrested upon entering one of their nations. It’s not really something you can or cannot concede to, unless you are of the opinion America is the only sovereign state in the world.

Historically speaking, Westphalian sovereignty meant that there was no such thing as an "international criminal court", nor "war crimes". An ICC party such as France hypothetically arresting, for example, Netanyahu, for things that he did in Israel, would amount to a substantial erosion of Israel's sovereignty in the Westphalian sense. Under the Westphalian system, Israel's prince would have sole jurisdiction in such…

The Westphalian sovereignty that you describe would refuse the authority of the Nuremberg trials.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#232

Post by FpUser »

SllX wrote: post #212
kragen wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're imagining this happening in a world where the US has the political status it had ten years ago, not the political status it will have ten years in the future.

We’re only talking about today, bruh. There’s no sense worrying about a tomorrow that may never come, but I’m willing to bet that 10 years from now we still have the strongest military in and around The Hague and even beyond, very very few would ever be willing to threaten war with us to back up the ICC. Now, 20 years from now? 30 years from now? 50? Who knows.

>"...very few would ever be willing to threaten war with us to back up the ICC"

They would not have to. It will be up to your military to come to allied country and shoot their way through. This might be physically possible but I would imagine that the consequences of it to the standing of the US would be cataclysmic. So unless it is a former president I suspect the US will rather use some severe sanctions and still risk a payback.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#233

Post by 6c696e7578 »

nickdothutton wrote: post #81

Europe had a plan after they learned Merkel’s blackberry contents were going to Fort Meade, but they never enacted it. They planned their own MS Office (and email) replacement. Even got as far as scouting data centre sites and identifying first 40M accounts.

Which part of Europe? There's plenty of alternatives for off the shelf, or self hosted mail. An oldie, but still good is gmx for mail.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#234

Post by FirmwareBurner »

jey wrote: post #230
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did the US make that threat?

Greenland is an “autonomous territory” of Denmark

1) That's avoiding to answer my question.

2) And it's still false.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#236

Post by FpUser »

bertil wrote: post #231
kragen wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically speaking, Westphalian sovereignty meant that there was no such thing as an "international criminal court", nor "war crimes". An ICC party such as France hypothetically arresting, for example, Netanyahu, for things that he did in Israel, would amount to a substantial erosion of Israel's sovereignty in the Westphalian sense. Under the Westphalian system, Israel's prince would have sole jurisdiction in such…

The Westphalian sovereignty that you describe would refuse the authority of the Nuremberg trials.

The winner takes it all ...

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#237

Post by layer8 »

snickerbockers wrote: post #227
layer8 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ICC doesn’t arrest anyone themselves, they issue arrest warrants. The 125 ICC signatory states are required to comply with the warrants under the Rome Statute.

that doesn't answer the question.

The ICC acts under the Rome Statute. Strictly speaking, it isn’t concerned about whether arrests succeed or not, that’s not its job. Its job is to investigate and (if possible) perform trials.

You don’t stop investigating war crimes and bring charges just because the accused is currently unavailable. The latter may change, and has already changed in the past. Furthermore, the mere act of investigating can already put pressure on the investigated.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#238

Post by GTP »

SllX wrote: post #184
eesmith wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? The US has several ways to acquire jurisdiction over foreign defendants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_jurisdiction_over_int... If Macron were to sell old GREs online then, as the Raju case determined, the US can try him, and if Macron fails to appear for the trial, he defaults on the case and is subject to arrest should he appear in the US, or any county which has the appropriate extradition treaty…

I’m sure you want to try and catch me in an act of hypocrisy but I think I’ve been clear throughout this thread. So let me put it to you this way, if the Chilean President had the power of the POTUS backed up by a military equivalent to or superior to the US Military, would the UK have arrested and extradited him on behalf of Spain? So the solution for American Presidents is even simpler than the one you propose: dis…

So, in the end, your point is not whether the ICC should have the right to put foreign presidents on trial. It's about who has got the strongest military power.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#239

Post by JimBlackwood »

kragen wrote: post #209
JimBlackwood wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is definitely true. I can imagine the ICC would fall shortly after (since I think enough member states will not execute the arrest order and so it’s existence does not do much)

You're imagining this happening in a world where the US has the political status it had ten years ago, not the political status it will have ten years in the future.

No, it’s already happening today. There is an arrest warrant out for Netanyahu. Netanyahu visited Hungary, a party of the Rome Statue, and was not arrested.

In a similar vein, Poland has said Netanyahu would have been welcome to visit the liberation of Auschwitz, without having to worry about out any arrest.

Depending on how Hungary’s actions are resolved, the ICC will lose much of it’s use if member states just ignore the treaty.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#240

Post by mbac32768 »

bigtones wrote: post #7

>> Casper Klynge, a former Danish and European Union diplomat who worked for Microsoft, said the episode was in many ways the “smoking gun that many Europeans had been looking for.” Damn right. Strong evidence that Europe should look after their own, and not rely on the good old US of A. Written by an Australian who thinks we should do the same down here.

I can see the Microsoft board room meeting now.

A: The Europeans grow restless that we are suspending email accounts of Trump's political enemies.

B: What are they going to do, host their own email servers?

[maniacal cackling]

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