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Framework Laptop 12 review

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#231

Post by christophilus »

rafaelmn wrote: post #203
nucleardog wrote: post #130

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

Repairability sounds good in theory but in practice outside of two year warranty period I'm fine if I have to replace the device because of failure, but I got 4-5 out of most of my devices. Like my 2018 Intel MBP was the worst laptop in terms of thermals/battery etc. It's still going with a family member I handed it over to. I don't think I've had a laptop die on me in last 12 years of using laptops, I usually keep t…

Kind of with you on this. I just installed Arch on my wife’s old 2013 MacBook Pro. Works like a charm.

My work laptop (Fedora Linux, Dell XPS)is over 5 years old. I haven’t bothered to replace it, but will next year just because. The old one will become a retro gaming device for the kids.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#232

Post by class3shock »

For anyone considering the 16, mine has had some teething issues (1. motherboard failed and I was sent a replacement 2. keyboard/touchpad started having a issue losing connection which I still need to submit a ticket for). The USB A port also feels like it's gonna break at some point (the rest seem fine). The linux experience has been about the same as on a Dell XPS 13 with the consistent issues being poor battery life and an inability to sleep properly. If I were to do it again I would get the 13 not the 16 but would still give it a shot.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#233

Post by poisonborz »

I just wish somebody would make a quality, powerful 2in1 laptop model with a long commitment. Thinkpad X Yogas were the ones, but their price/perf is down the drain and you can't get one with DGPU.

There were some passable gaming models from others but with the usual QA issues of non-business products, and mostly one-off experiments/no refreshes.

Dear HA, tent mode in a laptop is great, please generate more enthusiast demand.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#234

Post by bloomca »

rafaelmn wrote: post #203
nucleardog wrote: post #130

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

Repairability sounds good in theory but in practice outside of two year warranty period I'm fine if I have to replace the device because of failure, but I got 4-5 out of most of my devices. Like my 2018 Intel MBP was the worst laptop in terms of thermals/battery etc. It's still going with a family member I handed it over to. I don't think I've had a laptop die on me in last 12 years of using laptops, I usually keep t…

I broke some of my devices, and some have battery become useless, and the price of changing is just not worth it, but overall? They last really long time. I even have some shitty 7 years old Chromebook still working okay passed to a family member, and Macbooks in general last very long.

And upgrading laptop components after 5 years just doesn't sound like a good value proposition.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#235

Post by stevesimmons »

paxys wrote: post #227
linsomniac wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

You can't upgrade the hard drive or RAM on modern laptops either.

You can upgrade SSD on most laptops other that Mac.

My Dell XPS13 came with a 1TB SSD, which recently was replaced with a 4TB one...

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#236

Post by pythonaut_16 »

adolph wrote: post #89
coder543 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article shows a few charts where a Framework laptop is faster than M4 Air both in single and multicore CPU benchmarks. Every single chart in the article showed the M4 MacBook Air beating the Framework 12 by a large margin. I don't know what charts you were looking at.

I think the parent comment is referring to its parent's question "Is it unreasonable to think Framework should be able to make a laptop competitive with the 5 years old MacBook Air M1?" That the Framework 12 is not extremely lagging behind the M4 (subjective comparison) might lead one to believe that it would be competitive with an five year old M1 Air. Taking a quick look at "Cinebench R23" from 2020 [0], Macbook Ai…

Does Asahi actually maintain the Macbook's performance and battery advantage when running Linux though?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#237

Post by kelnos »

nucleardog wrote: post #130

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

I guess Framework is maybe too new for us to be able to come up with figures here, but monetary value is hard to measure for a product where the intention is you don't ever fully replace it.

Sure, I might have spent a few hundred more on my Framework 13 back in 2022, but if I'd bought a Dell XPS 13 instead, I probably would be fully replacing it with a new machine in 2026 or 2027. But with the Framework, I'll instead only buy a new mainboard and RAM. My "next laptop" will cost ~$1000 for the same specs as something that would cost ~$2000.

So sure, it's going to take me a bit longer to realize the savings, but there still will be savings, and I appreciate the sustainability aspects too.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#238

Post by jekwoooooe »

I like the idea of framework but after using a MacBook for years and having an iPhone, there’s just no competition. Even if the performance could be the same, you just simply don’t have the ecosystem. I can mirror my phone on my Mac (securely). I have unified clipboard and notifications. Not to mention all the other apps that just work across all my Apple devices. Enterprise and commercial software support… I could go on. An I used to run a fully riced out tiled arch setup.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#239

Post by redundantly »

dale_huevo wrote: post #108
dmicah wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an M.2 hat for the Pi 5 that allows using an NVMe SSD instead of the SD card.

Like dropping a racing engine into a Hindustan Ambassador. Makes no sense.

I see you're a person of taste. You nicely paired a bad analogy with your incorrect assumption.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#240

Post by pdpi »

linsomniac wrote: post #190
atrus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

I bought the DIY FW13 a while back, and it took me 40 minutes from receiving the box to having it fully assembled, Fedora installed and a Youtube video playing. I bought the hi-res display a month or two ago, and the whole replacement took ~20 minutes. In between those two experiences, the whole upgradeability thing feels very very real for me. If anything, it's easier to work on than my desktop PC.
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