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Now might be the best time to learn software development

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Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#231

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There are people trying very hard (and succeeding) to CREATE the impression it will pay less money. Pay in general is extremely vibes based. A look at well... anything in the economy shows that. There are constant shortages of low paying jobs, and gluts of high paying jobs

I suspect it only looks like there are a lot of high paying jobs, because they are so much harder to fill, due to a there being so few qualified candidates... hence the high pay. Supply and demand.

Supply and demand is also influenced by ability to become qualified. I'm not qualified to flip burgers, but any fast food place could get me qualified in just a few hours. I'm not qualified to be a doctor and it would take me years of training to get that qualification. I've met people who failed to qualify as a burger flipper - you can correctly guess by that statement they are very disabled, I've met many who failed to qualify as a doctor, and all are smart people since people who are not wouldn't even try.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#232
post #221
post #184

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How many programmers did you need 40 years ago to write MS DOS programs? As you become more productive, more is expected of you. Instead of spending 10 days coloring pixels on the screen, now you're expected to push whole UIs in the same amount of time. Whether this is enabled by high-level languages, tools or AI is irrelevant.

I wonder if we need teams generating dozens of UIs or whatever every day though. There may (or may not) be a limit to how much value-adding work is available to do, or at least diminishing returns that no longer justify high salaries.

YEs we do - your point that there might be too many is valid, but a modern UI when done right is much more accessible to the "common man" than a MSDos and so all the time those teams put in is more than made up for in all the time you saving not having to teach all the people who will use the program and thus we need far more teams than in the MSDos days when we couldn't make a good UI in the first place.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#233

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To each his own. I'm completely drained after 30 min of "discussing" with an LLM, which is essentially an overconfident idiot. Pushes never come from the LLM, which can be easily seen by feeding the output of two LLMs into each other. The conversation collapses completely. Using Google while ignoring the obnoxious and often wrong LLM summaries at the top gives you access to the websites of real human experts, who oft…

are we using the same version of google? Unless incredibly specific I mostly see SEO optimized garbage.

Everyone uses an individualized version of Google, not just your history its even different by country of origin etc.

So no, they are not using the same version of Google.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#234
post #119

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Strictly speaking, farming is where all our livelihoods come from, in the greatest part. We're all living off the surplus value of food production. (Also of other food, energy, and materials sourcing: fishing, forestry, mining, etc.) This was the insight of the French economist François Quesnay in his Tableau économique , foundation of the Physiocratic school of economics.

You might find https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarine#Coal_butter fascinating. > Strictly speaking, farming is where all our livelihoods come from, in the greatest part. We're all living off the surplus value of food production. I don't think farming is special here, because food isn't special. You could make exactly the same argument for water (or even air) instead of food, and all of a sudden all our livelihoods w…

Except in a few places drinkable water is in such abundance that nobody every spent significant effort trying to get it. Likewise for air, few people have ever spent much effort getting air to breathe - even in the worst polluted areas bottled air was reserved for airplanes, hospitals (and a few people with medical conditions), and scuba divers.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#235
post #16

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You're joking but it's true. I'm sure you know that. SQL had similar claims... Declarative, say what you need and the computer will do for you. Also written in English.

I'd long ago (1990s-era) heard that the original intent was that office secretaries would write their own SQL queries. (I'd love for someone to substantiate or debunk this for me.)

I would say that failed with SQL but succeeded with Excel. If you replace "office secretaries" with "office workers" in general.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#236

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I'd long ago (1990s-era) heard that the original intent was that office secretaries would write their own SQL queries. (I'd love for someone to substantiate or debunk this for me.)

That's always the promise of these things; non-specialists will be able to program now! This has been going on since COBOL. The one case where it arguably worked out to some extent was spreadsheets.

Anyone with complex spreadsheets (which is a lot of companies) has a few programmers with the job of maintaining them. The more training those people have in "proper programming" the better the spreadsheets work.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#237
Here are my 2¢ on using AI at work. I’m using Claude code and my typical tmux/neovim setup.

1. I use AI to find my way in a sprawling micro(service|frontend) system that I am new to. This helps cut down massively on the “I know what to do, I just can’t figure out where.” I started a new job where everyone has years of context as to how things fit together and I have none. I feel strongly that I need to give an honest effort at finding things on my own before asking for help, and AI certainly helps there.

2. Anything I stumble upon in a dev/deployment process that leans too heavily into the “good behavior/hygiene,” I try to automate immediately for myself and then clean up to share with the team. In the past, I might have tried to adopt the common practice, but now it’s less effort to simply automate it away.

3. There is value in using AI in the same manner as I use vim macros: I use the planning mode heavily and iterate like crazy until I’m satisfied with the flow. If the task has a lot of repetition, I typically do the first one myself then let the AI take a whack at one or two. If I don’t like the process, I update the plan. Once I see things going smoothly, I give the AI the ok to finish the rest (making atomic commits so that it’s not just one big ball of wax). This is pretty similar to how I record macros (make one change yourself, record the macro on the next line, test it out for a line or 2, re-record if necessary, test again, plow through the rest).

4. When I come across something that needs to be fixed/could be improved but isn’t related to my task at hand, I do a few minutes of research and planning with the AI, and instead of coding a solution, we create a todo document or an issue in a tracking system. This wasn’t happening before because of the context switching required to write good documentation for later. Now it’s more of the same thing but akin to a dry run of a script.

5. I can quickly generate clear and easy to read reports to allow other teammates to give me feedback on work in flight. Think about a doc with before and after screenshots of changes throughout an app produced by a playwright script and a report generator that I can rerun in under a minute whenever I want.

I’m finding that I really enjoy the skipping the tedious stuff, and I’m also writing higher quality stuff because I have more bandwidth. It helps me collaborate more with my non dev peers because it lowers the barrier to sharing.

Important to note that in my experimenting, I haven’t had great luck with winding it up and setting it loose on a task. Too often it felt like being a junior engineer again, doomed to throw spaghetti at the wall. Once I started using AI as an assistant, I felt things really started to click. Software development is about writing code, but it’s about a lot of other things too. It’s nice when the AI can help write code, but it’s fantastic when it helps you accomplish the other things.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#238

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> That only made the world better, and we got soo many more good photographers. I disagree with the "only" part here. Imagine a distribution curve of photos with shitty photos on the left and masterpieces on the right and the height at the curve is how many photos there are to be seen at that quality. The digital camera transition massively increased the height of the curve at all points. And thanks to things like be…

You hit this so hard it was impossible not to recognize. In every sense there is too much "ok" shit (in every media realm) that we cannot help but miss amazing stuff. Knowing that I don't have enough time for all the incredible things that technology has enabled crushes me.

All of the old, great classic movies are available for streaming somewhere.

I still find great value in the TCM cable channel. Simply because if I tune in at a random time, it's likely to be showing an excellent old film I either never heard of or never got around to watching.

The service they are offering is curation, which has a lot of value in an age of infinite content flooding our attention constantly.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#239
post #205

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For some strange reason Excel really managed to do it. Many many people who don't think of themselves anywhere near being a programmer, somehow get at ease in front of Excel enough that they often inadvertently and kind of unawarely end up learning programming concepts and creating much more complex computational applications than its been possible with any other tool for non-developers.

I have a theory on that, based on something I do that over the years I've learned a lot of my co-workers don't do: When I'm reading code, I have the contents of the variables all in mind and am manipulating them as I read the code. When describing it a couple of times they've said "oh, like a human compiler"... So I really don't know what's going on in their heads, but this seems like the reason I can understand code…

Yes, laying everything out in a 2D grid is just quite intuitive, like arranging objects on a tabletop. Also, it's flat, there's little nesting and you don't have to come up with abstraction hierarchies and loops are typically just unrolled in place.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That only made the world better, and we got soo many more good photographers. I disagree with the "only" part here. Imagine a distribution curve of photos with shitty photos on the left and masterpieces on the right and the height at the curve is how many photos there are to be seen at that quality. The digital camera transition massively increased the height of the curve at all points. And thanks to things like be…

It affects even the competent photographer. How many times do you see that photographer with all the gear sit in front of a literal statue and fire off a 30 shot burst in 2 seconds? I don’t envy these pro photo editors either today in sports. I wonder how many shots they have to go through per touchdown from all the photographers at the end zone firing a burst until everyone stands up and throws the ball back at the…

I suspect most of the time you can eliminate 300 of those 400 right away - they obviously are either too early or too late to capture the moment. On the remaining 100 you can choose any one (or more likely 5 as there are likely several moments - the moment the catch is made and the moment the athlete smiles as he realizes he made that catch).

The reason to take all 400 though as every once in a while one photo is obviously better than another for some reason. You also want several angles because sometimes the light will be wrong at the moment, or someone will happen to be in the way of your shot...

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