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Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

blog.miguelgrinberg.com

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Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#231
post #55

It would be interesting to see which is faster/better in competitive coding, the human coder or the human using AI to assist in coding.

New benchmark for competitive coding dropped yesterday - https://livecodebenchpro.com/ Apparently models are not doing great for problems out of distribution.

It goes to show that the LLMs aren't intelligent in the way humans are. LLMs are a really great replacement for googling though

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#232
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And ChatGPT never closes your question without answer because it (falsely) thinks it's a duplicate of a different question from 13 years ago

But it does give you a ready to copy paste answer instead of a 'teach the man how to fish' answer.

Not if you prompt it to explain the answer it gives you.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's something you can pick in a few minutes You can start in a few minutes, sure. (Also you can start using gdb in minutes) But GP is talking about the ceiling. Do you know which models work better for what kind of task? Do you know what format is better for extra files? Do you know when it's beneficial to restart / compress context? Are you using single prompts or multi stage planning trees? How are you managing…

I feel like there is also a very high ceiling to how much scaffolding you can produce for the agents to get them to work better. This includes custom prompts, custom CLAUDE.md files, other documentation files for Claude to read, and especially how well and quickly your linting and tests can run, and how much functionality they cover. That's not to mention MCP and getting Claude to talk to your database or open your w…

And where all this skill will go when newer models after one year use different tools and require different scaffolding?

The problem with overinvesting in a brand new, developping field is that you get skills that are soon to be redundant. You can hope that the skills are gonna transfer to what will be needed after, but I am not sure if that will be the case here. There was a lot of talk about prompting techniques ("prompt engineering") last year, and now most of these are redundant and I really don't think I have learnt something that is useful enough for the new models, nor have I actually understood sth. These are all tricks and tips level, shallow stuff.

I think these skills are just like learning how to use some tools in an ide. They increase productivity, it's great but if you have to switch ide they may not actually help you with the new things you have to learn in the new environment. Moreover, these are just skills in how to use some tools; they allow you to do things, but we cannot compare learning how to use tools vs actually learning and understanding the structure of a program. The former is obviously a shallow form of knowledge/skill, easily replaceable, easily redundant and probably not transferable (in the current context). I would rather invest more time in the latter and actually get somewhere.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add, another experience I had. I was using an API I'm not that familiar with. My program was crashing. Looking at the stack trace I didn't see why. Maybe if I had many months experience with this API it would be obvious but it certainly wasn't to me. For fun I just copy and pasted the stack trace into Gemini. ~60 frames worth of C++. It immediately pointed out the likely cause given the API I was using. I fixed th…

You remember when Google used to do the same thing for you way before "AI"? Okay, maybe sometimes the post about the stack trace was in Chinese, but a plain search used to be capable of giving the same answer as a LLM. It's not that LLMs are better, it's search that got entshittified.

>You remember when Google used to do the same thing for you way before "AI"? [...] stack trace [...], but a plain search used to be capable of giving the same answer as a LLM.

The "plain" Google Search before LLM never had the capability to copy&paste an entire lengthy stack trace (e.g. ~60 frames of verbose text) because long strings like that exceeds Google's UI. Various answers say limit of 32 words and 5784 characters: https://www.google.com/search?q=limit+of+google+search+strin...

Before LLM, the human had to manually visually hunt through the entire stack trace to guess at a relevant smaller substring and paste that into Google the search box. Of course, that's do-able but that's a different workflow than an LLM doing it for you.

To clarify, I'm not arguing that the LLM method is "better". I'm just saying it's different.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add, another experience I had. I was using an API I'm not that familiar with. My program was crashing. Looking at the stack trace I didn't see why. Maybe if I had many months experience with this API it would be obvious but it certainly wasn't to me. For fun I just copy and pasted the stack trace into Gemini. ~60 frames worth of C++. It immediately pointed out the likely cause given the API I was using. I fixed th…

You remember when Google used to do the same thing for you way before "AI"? Okay, maybe sometimes the post about the stack trace was in Chinese, but a plain search used to be capable of giving the same answer as a LLM. It's not that LLMs are better, it's search that got entshittified.

I remember when I could paste an error message into Google and get an answer. I do not remember pasting a 60 line stack trace into Google and getting an answer, though I'm pretty sure I honestly never tried that. Did it work?

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#237
The main claim made: When there's money or reputation to be lost, code requires the same amount of cognition; irrespective of who wrote the code, AI or not.

Best counter claim: Not all code has the same risk. Some code is low risk, so the risk of error does not detract from the speed gained. For example, for proof of concepts or hobby code.

The real problem: Disinformation. Needless extrapolation, poor analogies, over valuing anecdotes.

But there's money to be made. What can we do, sometimes the invisible hand slaps us silly.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT and Gemini literally only know the answer because they read StackOverflow. Stack Overflow only exists because they have visitors. What do you think will happen when everyone is using the AI tools to answer their questions? We'll be back in the world of Encyclopedias, in which central authorities spent large amounts of money manually collecting information and publishing it. And then they spent a good amount o…

> ChatGPT and Gemini literally only know the answer because they read StackOverflow. Stack Overflow only exists because they have visitors. I know this isn't true because I work on an API that has no answers on stackoverflow (too new), nor does it have answers anywhere else. Yet, the AI seems to able to accurately answer many questions about it. To be honest I've been somewhat shocked at this.

It is absolutely true, and AI cannot think, reason, comprehend anything it has not seen before. If you're getting answers, it has seen it elsewhere, or it is literally dumb, statistical luck.

That doesn't mean it knows the answer. That means it guessed or hallucinated correctly. Guessing isn't knowing.

edit: people seem to be missing my point, so let me rephrase. Of course AIs don't think, but that wasn't what I was getting at. There is a vast difference between knowing something, and guessing.

Guessing, even in humans, is just the human mind statistically and automatically weighing probabilities and suggesting what may be the answer.

This is akin to what a model might do, without any real information. Yet in both cases, there's zero validation that anything is even remotely correct. It's 100% conjecture.

It therefore doesn't know the answer, it guessed it.

When it comes to being correct about a language or API that there's zero info on, it's just pure happenstance that it got it correct. It's important to know the differences, and not say it "knows" the answer. It doesn't. It guessed.

One of the most massive issues with LLMs is we don't get a probability response back. You ask a human "Do you know how this works", and an honest and helpful human might say "No" or "No, but you should try this. It might work".

That's helpful.

Conversely a human pretending it knows and speaking with deep authority when it doesn't is a liar.

LLMs need more of this type of response, which indicates certainty or not. They're useless without this. But of course, an LLM indicating a lack of certainty, means that customers might use it less, or not trust it as much, so... profits first! Speak with certainty on all things!

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#239

I'm fine with anybody saying AI agents don't work for their work-style and am not looking to rebut this piece, but I'm going to take this opportunity to call something out. The author writes "reviewing code is actually harder than most people think. It takes me at least the same amount of time to review code not written by me than it would take me to write the code myself". That sounds within an SD of true for me, to…

I guess my challenge is that "if it was a rote recitation of an idiomatic go function", was it worth writing? There is a certain, style, lets say, of programming, that encourages highly non re-usable code that is both at once boring and tedious, and impossible to maintain and thus not especially worthwhile. The "rote code" could probably have been expressed, succinctly, in terms that border on "plain text", but with…

I would put it differently: when you already have a mental model of what the code is supposed to do and how, then reviewing is easy: just check that the code conforms to that model.

With an arbitrary PR from a colleague or security audit, you have to come up with mental model first, which is the hardest part.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#240
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And ChatGPT never closes your question without answer because it (falsely) thinks it's a duplicate of a different question from 13 years ago

But it does give you a ready to copy paste answer instead of a 'teach the man how to fish' answer.

I'd rather have a copy paste answer than a "go fish" answer
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