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Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

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Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#231

Post by ghaff »

throwaway81523 wrote: post #183
trentnix wrote: post #77

Now there are more avenues for Samsung to shove bloatware down our throats. I have a modestly high-end home theater and it is utterly maddening waiting for devices to “boot” and “handshake”. And after the wait, I’m presented with another “User Agreement” to sign that insists on shoveling ads down my throat and harvesting data. How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experien…

Thorens 166 turntable, Fischer tube amp from a flea market, and homemade speakers. I left that stuff in storage many years ago and have no idea where it is now. Come to think of it, that had a boot delay too (waiting for the tubes to warm up) but it never really bothered me.

You have to believe that the market for even mid-range audio/home theater gear is rapidly shrinking. I had my house cleared out because of a kitchen fire/smoke mitigation and I'm not sure--even assuming everything is declared OK--how much effort I'm going to put into hooking everything backup as I really didn't use it a lot. (Have a new TV/soundbar/subwoofer in another room.)

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#232

Post by ryukoposting »

trentnix wrote: post #77

Now there are more avenues for Samsung to shove bloatware down our throats. I have a modestly high-end home theater and it is utterly maddening waiting for devices to “boot” and “handshake”. And after the wait, I’m presented with another “User Agreement” to sign that insists on shoveling ads down my throat and harvesting data. How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experien…

> How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience?

Not much. Buy used. Buying new stereo equipment is an activity of the wealthy. Everywhere I've ever lived, CraigsList is overrun with excellent used speakers and receivers at reasonable prices.

I won't inundate you with brand-flexing, but I'll say I'm very happy with my home theater system. 4K OLED TV, big ol' tower speakers, and a pretty nice home theater unit. All from reputable brands. All used. Under $400 all together. No shitware.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#233

Post by ChoGGi »

fxtentacle wrote: post #186
trentnix wrote: post #77

Now there are more avenues for Samsung to shove bloatware down our throats. I have a modestly high-end home theater and it is utterly maddening waiting for devices to “boot” and “handshake”. And after the wait, I’m presented with another “User Agreement” to sign that insists on shoveling ads down my throat and harvesting data. How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experien…

I'll try to explain this from the point of view of someone who has tried to bring a bloatware-free hifi system to market: Chinese copies + Amazon = flood of shit It takes years to design, test, build prototypes, measure, re-design, re-build, calibrate, certify and produce a good hifi audio amp. That means you start your product journey with $500k in debt and unless you can show how you're going to sell enough units t…

> They don't have R&D to recoup because the can just buy my product, x-ray the PCB, and then make duplicates.

Too much effort when they can just go to the company making them and get cheaply made copies :)

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#234

Post by mastercheif »

tzs wrote: post #61

I've got a Samsung TV and a Samsung monitor in the same room. About 20% of the time when I use the TV remote from the couch to turn off the TV it also turns of the monitor. If I'm at the computer and turn off the TV with the TV remote it turns off the monitor the majority of the time. I wonder if Samsung will manage to make to so Denon and Marantz receivers will also sometimes turn off when you turn off a Samsung TV?

This is because the remotes use IR for the power commands. There’s really no getting around it. A small piece of electrical tape over the IR window on the monitor will fix it.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#235

Post by ryukoposting »

How many people hear "JBL" and think "Bluetooth speaker" instead of "high end stereo gear?"

How many people hear B&W or Harman-Kardon and think "logo on my car's speakers" rather than "high end stereo gear?"

How many people hear "Mark Levinson" and think either "Lexus" or "who's Mark?"

I genuinely didn't know that there were still real, standalone speakers and head units made under half these brands that aren't whitelabeled Bluetooth detritus.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#236

Post by fxtentacle »

ChoGGi wrote: post #233
fxtentacle wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try to explain this from the point of view of someone who has tried to bring a bloatware-free hifi system to market: Chinese copies + Amazon = flood of shit It takes years to design, test, build prototypes, measure, re-design, re-build, calibrate, certify and produce a good hifi audio amp. That means you start your product journey with $500k in debt and unless you can show how you're going to sell enough units t…

> They don't have R&D to recoup because the can just buy my product, x-ray the PCB, and then make duplicates. Too much effort when they can just go to the company making them and get cheaply made copies :)

No, you actually want to reverse-engineer the PCB so that you have schematics. That allows you to more easily replace components with cheaper alternatives and/or modify the firmware to continue working on your unintended hardware. (Fake products typically replace the on-board components with cheaper variants, like using lower-rated caps, to squeeze out a tiny bit more profit margin. Like really in the $1 per 10k units range.) Plus PCB x-ray is a common thing that also reputable manufacturers do for quality control or security assurance (e.g. Is there a HW backdoor in this mainboard?) so you can just book that as an affordable service. I remember Siemens recently bought a PCB RE provider, but I can't find the news article anymore.

To give you some price ideas:

10x10cm 4-layer PCB x-ray and RE: $200

STM32 firmware dumping: $700

EEPROM dumping: $300

The STM32 is the most expensive because you need to decap them to get the hardware encryption key. But it's still A LOT cheaper than building your own firmware from scratch.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#237

Post by bluGill »

robertlagrant wrote: post #178
trentnix wrote: post #77

Now there are more avenues for Samsung to shove bloatware down our throats. I have a modestly high-end home theater and it is utterly maddening waiting for devices to “boot” and “handshake”. And after the wait, I’m presented with another “User Agreement” to sign that insists on shoveling ads down my throat and harvesting data. How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experien…

> Just like every retailer has embraced usury with their credit card programs What does this mean?

Go to any large retailer and they will ask you to user their branded credit card. They will also ask you do if you want the extended warranty on anything not obviously consumable.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#238

Post by MaKey »

elihu wrote: post #198
silisili wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same boat. I made the unfortunate mistake of buying Samsung kitchen stuff. The fridge ice maker had to have been designed by a troll. One piece of ice every 10 seconds or so. It took a minute to fill a simple dinner glass! Then the microwave handle just...fell off the door. In all my years of owning bottom of the barrel to top end brands, I didn't even realize it was possible. The repairman said it was common, but be…

My current phone is a cheap Samsung. It's awful. The usb-C connector has never worked for data and only barely works for power (the plug sits at a funny angle and doesn't charge unless it's "just right"). There doesn't seem to be any debris in the connector and I've tried a couple different cables, so my best guess is just the connector came from the factory misshapen. Phone reception is terrible where I live, but I'…

Over time lint and dirt builds up at the end of the USB-C port. It gets compressed there so you won't immediately notice it. Try to find something small enough to put in there and carefully scrape over the backside.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#239

Post by bluGill »

steveBK123 wrote: post #207

It's a shame that big box stores (Walmart, Target) / online retail (Amazon) / brand owned stores (Apple, Bose) have all conspired to reduce consumer choice. Even in big cities, there's practically no specialty stores to go to in which I can demo a product category across brands. Think pre-GFC peak Best Buy & the old CompUSA/Circuit City chains of the past or even Apple before they captured every other product categor…

The problem with showrooms is it is easy to go in, see what you need, then walk out and order from the cheaper mail order place that doesn't have retail overhead.

The other problem is walmart with the generic stuff is good enough for most even though it is measurably bad, in a cheap but measurably bad listening environment - but they can thereby compete with online sales. That and a lot of expensive stuff is measurably no better than the "our best" walmark junk and so if you do find such a store there is no guarantee they are not pushing you overprice junk instead of the good stuff.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#240

Post by wlesieutre »

nirvdrum wrote: post #114
AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just pick better brands for your receiver. I have an Anthem pre and an LG TV, both of which are blocked from accessing the internet, and I have none of these issues.

I think the point is with Samsung acquiring these other brands there are now fewer options. Denon AVRs have been solid options for home theaters, particularly if you have many different inputs. People buy them because they want a Denon/Marantz. If they wanted to buy Samsung that option is already available. The concern is Samsung will mar the brands, removing semi-affordable, quality options and forcing people that d…

Yes, exactly. There are a couple of companies making home AV hardware. But not a lot of them. And across a lot of industries the different players are all getting gobbled up and turned shitty much faster than new competitors can replace them.
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