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Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

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Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#231

Post by Hyperboreanal »

michaelt wrote: post #174
gertrunde wrote: post #125

I would like to think there there is a solution that can be engineered, in which a service is able to verify that a user is above an appropriate age threshold, while maintaining privacy safeguards, including, where relevant, for the age-protected service not to be privy to the identity of the user, and for the age verification service to not be privy to the nature of the age-protected service being accessed. In this…

Unfortunately, no amount of blockchains and zero-knowledge proofs can compensate for the fact that 15 year old has a 18 year old friend. Or the fact that other 15 year old looks older than some 20 year olds. Or the fact that other 15 year old's dad often leaves his wallet, with his driving license, unattended. Over the next five years, you can look forward to a steady trickle of stories in the press about shocked par…

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Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#232

Post by red_trumpet »

packetlost wrote: post #132
paxys wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transferring your age and a way to verify it to any third party is by definition a privacy violation. Doing so in a safe way is literally impossible since I don't want to share that information in the first place.

I feel like you could, theoretically, have a service that has an ID (as drivers license ID), perhaps operated by your government, that has an API and a notion of an ephemeral identifier that can be used to provide a digital attestation of some property without exposing that property or the exact identity of the person. It would require that the attestation system is trusted by all parties though, which is I think the…

This is not only theoretical, the German ID card ("elektronischer Personalausweis") can do exactly this.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#233

Post by Hyperboreanal »

rkagerer wrote: post #172

Of all the terrible, dumb-headed ideas. I would not want my kids scanning their face into who-knows-what third party's service. I already decline this technology when finance companies want to use it for eg. KYC verification ("Sorry, I don't own a smartphone compatible with your tool. If you want my business you'll have to find another way. Happy to provide a notarized declaration if you'd like" has worked in the pas…

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Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#235

Post by timewizard »

Hyperboreanal wrote: post #227
xphos wrote: post #211

I don't think the problem is that young people are finding porn on the internet. There is a problem, though, and it has to deal with psychological warfare on attention Formats like shorts or news feeds to you algorithmically with zero lag are the problem. It makes for the zombification of decision making. Endless content breaks people down precisely because it's endless. I think if you add age verification but don't…

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> 2 straight generations of porn addicts

Different types of pornography have different dangers and all of it has been broadly available since before the internet.

> And then you have shit like watchpeopledie.tv.

I think there's a broad gulf between these activities and I don't think they impact the brain in the same way as pornography. This type of violence can be found in movies and video games which also clearly predate the internet.

> Children should have been banned from the internet a decade ago

I'd rather pornography be banned.

> I'm completely willing to give up some privacy to make it happen.

Why? It should be incumbent on the people profiting from this activity to police it not on me to give up constitutional rights to protect their margins.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#236

Post by pests »

jjice wrote: post #2

Aside from the privacy nightmare, what about someone who is 18 and just doesn't have the traditional adult facial features? Same thing for someone who's 15 and hit puberty early? I can imagine that on the edges, it becomes really hard to discern. If they get it wrong, are you locked out? Do you have to send an image of your ID? So many questions. Not a huge fan of these recent UK changes (looking at the Apple E2E sit…

I witnessed the Better Off Ted water fountain skit play out in real life once, it was incredible awkward. I was helping my buddy and his black friend and his wife set up accounts on online casinos in Michigan for the promos/refer-a-friend rewards. Some of the sites require the live video facial verification and we were doing it in a darkly lit space at night. It worked instantly and without issue for my friend and me but oh man, many many attempts later and many additional lights needed to get it to work for his friends.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#237

Post by distalx »

This feels more like spying on everyone than making the internet safe for kids. Big companies and the government are already tracking what we do online. This just seems like a further reduction of our privacy on the internet.

Parents need to be more involved in what their kids do online, just like in real life. Grounding them isn't enough. We wouldn't let them wander into dangerous places, so we shouldn't let them wander online without adult supervision. Also, parents need to prepare for having tough conversations, like what pornography or gambling is.

Online companies need to really work to make their sites safe for everyone. They should act like they own a mall. If they let bad stuff in (like pornography, scams, gambling), it hurts their reputation, and people will leave.

Instead of banning everything, because some people take pleasure in those activities, maybe there should be separate online spaces for adults who want that kind of content, like how cities have specific areas for adult businesses. This way, it would be easier to restrict children's access to some hardcore stuff.

If we all put some effort into figuring out easy and privacy-friendly solutions to safeguard kids, we can rely on simple principles. For example, if you want to sell toys to kids, you shouldn't sell adult toys under the same roof (same domain) or have posters that can affect young minds.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#238

Post by padjo »

Hyperboreanal wrote: post #231
michaelt wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, no amount of blockchains and zero-knowledge proofs can compensate for the fact that 15 year old has a 18 year old friend. Or the fact that other 15 year old looks older than some 20 year olds. Or the fact that other 15 year old's dad often leaves his wallet, with his driving license, unattended. Over the next five years, you can look forward to a steady trickle of stories in the press about shocked par…

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By any means?

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#239

Post by dgan »

jjice wrote: post #2

Aside from the privacy nightmare, what about someone who is 18 and just doesn't have the traditional adult facial features? Same thing for someone who's 15 and hit puberty early? I can imagine that on the edges, it becomes really hard to discern. If they get it wrong, are you locked out? Do you have to send an image of your ID? So many questions. Not a huge fan of these recent UK changes (looking at the Apple E2E sit…

it doesn't even has to be "un traditional face feature". Hpw are they going to differentiate 18yo from 17y11mo? The latter is not legally adult
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