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After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#231
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it's completely destroying an incredibly valuable asset: The reputation of being a stable long-term employer! (This is possibly their corrupt intent.) The immediate "savings" reduced workforce (even assuming the same level of work gets done) can easily be obliterated by the long-term damage of needing to pay more to attract equally-qualified applicants away from the private sector. Some quick napkin-math just t…

Do we actually want "I just want a stable job" people being a significant part of the federal governments workforce? I generally wouldn't want those people to work for my company, so not sure why I'd want them to work in my government.

Governments are not startups. Boring and predictable is what the public and the markets want.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most companies don't care about their employees. Many of America's largest private employers like Amazon and Walmart have extremely high turnover, so it's no wonder people are looking for a more stable employer. Government workers are far more likely to be unionized which means they can get better working conditions and actual pensions. Government workers can take far more pride in being public servants than…

> Government workers can take far more pride in being public servants than they would peeing in a bottle for amazon. It's no surprise there is less turnover. See, this is where you're losing me. One the one hand you are arguing that part of what makes working for the government desirable is the job itself / the work being done (which sounds good to me), but then you are immediately conflating that with a reputation f…

> but then you are immediately conflating that with a reputation for being a "stable employer" (read: not firing people when maybe you should), which is not how I want my tax dollars to be used.

You're using an incorrect definition for "stable employer". Employers with low turnover rates are stable employers. The usual reason for low turnover rate is employee satisfaction with the job and their work environment, not a failure to fire people who should be fired. If you know of a government employee who should be fired you can apply political pressure on the people responsible and, if needed, vote them out of office and replace them with someone who will fire that person.

Spending is a legitimate concern, and there are situations where money in government is being wasted, people are bribed, no-bid contracts are awarded, etc. That happens much less than you'd think though and you can run into the same kinds of problems in the private sector too. It's much easier to spot when it happens in government because the books are open records.

> I want the federal government to be exactly as big as it needs to be in order to deliver on the democratically decided goals of the American people.

Consider that governments are capable of proving a service at cost while a private company cannot because on top of the cost they also need to fill their own pockets with taxpayer money. Private companies must make profit, which means that they must charge taxpayers more than necessary.

I'd agree that we want talented government workers, and we often get them, but most of all we want the goods and services we're paying for. We shouldn't have to lower our ambitions, if anything we should be demanding more from our government, and that includes getting more for our money.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#233
post #139

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

> The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business process. You are literally playing with entire lives here as if they are disposable things. This alone makes what is happening inhumane. This makes no sense. It is not a life, it is a job. The person isn't dead. They get a generous…

DOGE is destroying entire fields. Maybe you built a career in museum curatorship or international development. You don't get paid much but its a decent living and you feel that you are enriching the world.

You don't just wake up without a job. You wake up in a world where you need a totally new career.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is "we" ? How many systems has "we" actually experienced first hand, and were the results such as you report them ?

"We" - humanity. "We" actually experienced all social systems "we" invented so far, which are allowed by "our" productivity.

Humanity did fine with other systems that capitalism. Hunter gather societies were well adapted to their environments, Tibetan monks dealt with human relations differently etc.

It would be crazy to assume that the whole humanity longs for capitalism whatever their situation or belief system, the same way _we_ don't assume any current form of capitalism is specially superior to other alternative forms that could better benefit our situations.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#235

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

I think you've actually hit on one of the fundamental pillars of modern conservatism in America, which is that they don't actually believe in civil society nor do they believe that the government exists to benefit people. Conservative ideology these days pretty much limits government to maintaining trade agreements and arresting people that they don't like.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly. People who just want a stable job are in it for the (stable) money.

99% of people who work are just in it for the money. You’re a very blessed individual if you’re doing it for the love of the job rather than because you have to pay the bills and buy food.

An aside: I've never once heard the word "blessed" used where the subtext wasn't "fuck you". It's the American equivalent of Britain's "With all due respect..." I love it.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#237

I stg DOGE is going to rewrite the Social Security software stack and it's going to crash and burn on the first person whose last name is "Null"

Everybody should read the public reports about the status of the social security codebase and the (previous) plans to modernize it.

A lot of this code was written before meaningful computer networks existed. Records were committed nightly to tape banks. System limitations meant that a lot of unusual situations were handled with special magic values. Like imagines the norm of returning -1 to represent an error but all over the place and stored in databases. I'm sure that some of this was avoidable, but a lot of it was natural just given that codebase is so old.

This is how you get things like Musk saying that there are a gazillion 140 year olds receiving payments and that this must be fraud when actually this is a special data case. So what happens when the codebase is rewritten to be "simple?" Those people stop receiving payments because the special case handling gets lost. All that data consistency code that exists to handle the fact that a bunch of systems don't perform atomic global updates? Lost. Oops, rows just randomly get dropped now.

We can argue about the merits of LLM-driven programming, but it should be very obvious to everybody that "rewrite the social security codebase in a month with AI" is not well suited for these tools today and requires an incredible amount of arrogance to pursue. The annoying new hire who looks at the codebase, declares that it is messy, and demands to rewrite it but x1000.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#238
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business process. You are literally playing with entire lives here as if they are disposable things. This alone makes what is happening inhumane. This makes no sense. It is not a life, it is a job. The person isn't dead. They get a generous…

DOGE is destroying entire fields. Maybe you built a career in museum curatorship or international development. You don't get paid much but its a decent living and you feel that you are enriching the world. You don't just wake up without a job. You wake up in a world where you need a totally new career.

There are lots of privately funded museums. Museums are not going to disappear.

“International development” is mostly rich failsons with politically connected parents getting funneled taxpayer money via NGOs and/or a front for the CIA. Good riddance.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#239
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DOGE is destroying entire fields. Maybe you built a career in museum curatorship or international development. You don't get paid much but its a decent living and you feel that you are enriching the world. You don't just wake up without a job. You wake up in a world where you need a totally new career.

There are lots of privately funded museums. Museums are not going to disappear. “International development” is mostly rich failsons with politically connected parents getting funneled taxpayer money via NGOs and/or a front for the CIA. Good riddance.

"Don't worry, you've got six months of emergency fund and jobs come and go" and "good riddance I'm glad their careers are destroyed those lazy leeches" don't feel like they should be placed so close together.

I personally believe that making mobile games is less valuable to the world than handing out TB meds, but that's just me.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#240
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of privately funded museums. Museums are not going to disappear. “International development” is mostly rich failsons with politically connected parents getting funneled taxpayer money via NGOs and/or a front for the CIA. Good riddance.

"Don't worry, you've got six months of emergency fund and jobs come and go" and "good riddance I'm glad their careers are destroyed those lazy leeches" don't feel like they should be placed so close together. I personally believe that making mobile games is less valuable to the world than handing out TB meds, but that's just me.

Then you are free to spend your own money to hand out TB meds instead of buying mobile games. That’s your prerogative.
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