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Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

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Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#231

Post by mathfailure »

travisgriggs wrote: post #108
mathfailure wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this might be a move to stop a world war (between Russia and NATO/Europe). If U.S. also leaves NATO any time soon - the chances for a world war would decrease greatly.

Yes, the isolationist era that followed World War One clearly calmed the rest of the world, so that the various "expansionist" regimes felt less threatened and just let their neighbors be. History rhymes with itself.

It's different now, since at that time there were no weapons of total annihilation (and now there are quite some).

That's exactly why 'expansionist' regimes were ready to start some next war, being eager "to get some extra land" as a result of said war.

The current war is different: this is the war that started not out of appetite towards foreign lands, but, basically, out of primal fear, the fear concerning safety. The West was failing at self-reflection and was completely oblivious about their own actions being treated as crossing a real red line for Russia's safety.

You may scare a wandering bear away, but driving it into a corner is both stupid and fatal.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#232

Post by LikeBeans »

csense wrote: post #12

So honest question: A bunch of people who currently own stock are deciding they'd rather have cash instead -- that much is obvious. But what exactly are they doing with the cash? Don't want to hold onto it, everyone says devaluation and inflation is coming. Bitcoin and gold are kinda flat. I expected them to shoot up as uncertainty hedges. What gives?

Lookup VUSXX. It is a vanguard short term treasury fund. That's where I put my cash. It is currently paying 4.24% that is state tax free (I live in Oregon).

Unfortunately it is hard to predict if that rate will stay high enough. Previously I had 'cash' in iBonds which for a while paid 8-9% early in the pandemic when inflation was high. If none of the above pays well enough I look into treasuries, or CDs.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#233

Post by JackYoustra »

gU9x3u8XmQNG wrote: post #50
lenerdenator wrote: post #4

I was looking at used cars on Carmax about two or three weeks ago. I looked again today. They're another $1-2k. This is the shareholder/political class trying to eat their cake and have it too. Pay people a stagnant wage for 40 years while taking most of the surplus value and dedicating it to equities, then pretend to do something about it, but in a way that passes the buck to the people who have been making a stagna…

100% agree with this perspective. It’s surprising how few others seem to note this. Thanks for posting it.

Why would shareholders want to tank the value of their shares?

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#234

Post by tokai »

ViktorRay wrote: post #49
fulladder wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The belief of Trump and his allies is that the last 40 years of free trade has been extremely favorable to college educated "elites" and extremely unfavorable to the working class. They see foreign trade as having hollowed out American manufacturing, and therefore they see the shutting down foreign trade as a way to reverse this decline. While they are aware that doing so will hurt college educated professionals, the…

But these beliefs have been core to the American left for decades. Even left wing intellectuals like Noam Chomsky have attacked the neoliberal trade agreements I think. Trump’s populist right wing fans have adopted traditionally left wing views. What’s surprising is so many left wing people are supportive of free trade when they were against free trade during the Reagan era.

MAGA Communism is apparently a thing.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#235

Post by donnachangstein »

jarym wrote: post #30
beloch wrote: post #8

This is an inherently political subject, but I would appreciate a dispassionate argument explaining how this could be even remotely good for the U.S.'s economy in a way that is light on MAGA ideology and doesn't simply claim the overwhelming majority of economists are dumb. I'm simply not seeing even a glimmer of a possible upside right now. I see even less possibility of an upside for those of us North of the border…

My best understanding of the administration's psyche is that they're determined to have more manufacturing happen in the US - regardless of the economic impact. It still doesn't make sense though - there's a reason sneaker makers like to have kids in places like Vietnam make shoes for a few cents per hour. It's because no one in the US would work gruelling hours for such little pay! POTUS wants to 'level the field' b…

> It's because no one in the US would work gruelling hours for such little pay!

There are entire towns in the US where nearly everyone is unemployed since the manufacturing dried up.

I would happily pay a few more dollars more per sneaker if it meant those people could have a job, and it meant my purchase went toward making someone's life here better.

> levelling' will mean the US getting poorer

It was never about being rich (maybe in a silicon valley bubble it is) but these people need jobs not only to live but for personal fulfillment. The fact that you are contributing positively to society.

Not everyone wants to collect welfare or unemployment and do nothing for the rest of their life. It causes serious mental health issues and why the 'opioid epidemic' has ravaged these small former-manufacturing towns.

People are hungry for work because they want to be part of society.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#236

Post by JackYoustra »

inatreecrown2 wrote: post #213
JackYoustra wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that obvious? Why would your 'negotiating stance' be 'give no demands and tariff the entire world, including islands with just penguins, a nonsensical rate?' I mean sure I guess you can say he's negotiating, in which case I'd like you to admit he's a terrible negotiator.

because that's the way he likes to do things?

"it's obvious that he's negotiating because he likes to negotiate in an incoherent way" I don't really know how to read what you're saying

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#237

Post by arwhatever »

keyle wrote: post #78
lreeves wrote: post #10

You know the craziest thing about watching this as an outsider in Canada is that we as a nation are losing one reliable trading partner (and obviously losing an ally but that's another conversation). Germany - losing a trade partner. Japan? And so on. But the US has lost 180 reliable trading partners. You're already seeing in the first week burgeoning trade alliances between nations who wouldn't have cooperated befor…

It's not 4D chess. It's not even 1D chess. Sparking the local industries needs to happen with incentives, not a tsunami. You can't swap the supply chain to a local-first instantly. Many things aren't done locally. The factory buildings are gone. The labor isn't there or trained. The basic materials aren't local and need to be imported. The machines needed to produce the parts don't exist locally and need to be import…

The episode of the Search Engine podcast “The puzzle of the all-American bbq scrubber” goes into detail on an example of this, is very interesting and makes the same points you’re making here.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#239

Post by graeme »

walterbell wrote: post #205
toddmorey wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well put. Alliances take years to build but can be broken in just days. I'm tempted to think (hope? dream?) that the markets and trade will rebound if all this chaos makes American politics swing back towards an interest in global stability, but I think anyone partnering with the US would do so VERY carefully and right now the entire world is plotting how to remove US dependencies.

https://www.retailcouncil.org/u-s-hits-185-nations-with-tari... > No new tariffs were announced for Canada. Canada and Mexico’s exemption for USMCA/CUSMA qualifying goods was maintained. However, 25% tariffs on non-USMCA compliant Canadian goods, Canadian steel and aluminum, Canadian autos and parts, and the 10% tariff on Canadian energy exports remain in place.. there are signs that negotiators on both sides are try…

So the tariffs were calculated based on dividing goods trade deficit by overall goods trade.

If you run that formula for Canada and Mexico, the number would be LOWER than the tariffs already imposed.

So they had to leave Canada and Mexico off to keep things looking consistent.

You can confirm here from USTR stats: https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada#:~:text=C...

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#240

Post by calmbell »

travisgriggs wrote: post #79
beloch wrote: post #8

This is an inherently political subject, but I would appreciate a dispassionate argument explaining how this could be even remotely good for the U.S.'s economy in a way that is light on MAGA ideology and doesn't simply claim the overwhelming majority of economists are dumb. I'm simply not seeing even a glimmer of a possible upside right now. I see even less possibility of an upside for those of us North of the border…

The boundaries of what is politics and what isn't is difficult to suss (for me) these days. I personally do not believe this is good. But I have a theory on why those that do think so. I'm 54. It follows that I see a number of people my age. I'm churchgoing, as well as involved in a number of clubs (pilots, rowing, legos, etc). So I get to rub shoulders with a decent amount of people. And especially a bunch of older…

I was shocked to learn that 75-year-old white men supported Kamala Harris at a significantly higher rate than 20-year-old white men: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/18/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas... (search for "75-year-old white men").
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