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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#231

Post by bdangubic »

yboris wrote: post #201
nozzlegear wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A less cynical framing is that the US is a much different culture from European countries, and is massively larger in scale. Depending on the problem, some of their solutions simply can't or don't apply.

I got a Master's Degree in Education and spent 2 years in Educational Psychology Ph.D. program and absolutely 0 time was spent looking at how other countries do education. It's baffling how despite numerous other countries outperforming the US in educational outcomes we do not even look at other approaches!

cause we are the best and when you are the best you simply do not look back :)

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#232

Post by cratermoon »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #103
culi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IQ link is very heavily lacking in evidence. In the actual research the main "risk" posed by flouridated water is actually fluorosis. This causes minerals in your enamel to be replaced with flouride which can cause them to be brittle in the long term. It's pretty uncommon but the thought is that now that flouride toothpaste are commonplace, the benefit of flouridated water is also way less. Which changes the calc…

[flagged]

7mg/L? Where the heck did you get that figure? The correct value is a tenth of that: 0.7 milligrams per Liter (mg/L) The limit is 2mg/L, and that's only found in places with naturally occurring high levels of flouride.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#233

Post by ergocoder »

piker wrote: post #28
dataflow wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I guess then my next question is, why are they doing this? Whom is it benefiting? Big Water?

Is there scope to believe they just think it may be better not to have it in the water?

By default, we should not add anything to the water.

The burden of proof should be on the people who want to add it. Because that is extra cost, extra chemical. If they can't prove it, then we don't do it.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#234

Post by jdminhbg »

freehorse wrote: post #123

This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact. Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it? It is completely bizarre witnessing both sides getting so polarised around a basically non-issue.

What I love about this comment is that one person thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and posted it, and then a bunch of other people thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and upvoted it, and not a single one of them thought to check what the "right thing" is.

Meanwhile, back here on Earth-1, there's no right thing, and countries all over the world have "by and large solved" the issue by doing completely different things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_by_country

> Water fluoridation is considered very common in the United States, Canada, Ireland, Chile and Australia where over 50% of the population drinks fluoridated water.

> Most European countries including Italy, France, Finland, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Austria, Poland, Hungary and Switzerland do not fluoridate water.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#235

Post by zmgsabst »

christianqchung wrote: post #176
ryao wrote: post #168

Fluoride in Toothpaste: Do not ingest. Flouride in Water: Ingest away. I do not understand how these two can co-exist.

Radioactive isotopes in nuclear fuel: do not ingest. Radioactive isotopes in banana: consume away. Understand now? I'm not even defending anything other than how two things that vaguely appear contradictory, are in fact, not.

I don’t.

Because your banana example doesn’t have additives meant to be reactive — so is unlike adding fluoride to water at levels which impact dental health.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#236

Post by nostromo »

freehorse wrote: post #123

This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact. Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it? It is completely bizarre witnessing both sides getting so polarised around a basically non-issue.

I’d agree that Europe has solved this issue by removing fluoride from drinking water.

But beyond Europe there’s still no global consensus.

I do agree that the US is an outlier with fluoride being nearly universal.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#237

Post by DeepYogurt »

nozzlegear wrote: post #185
ews wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US rarely looks into how other countries solve problems. (i.e. Universal Healthcare, High Speed Trains and so), this is the sad part of "American Exceptionalism"

A less cynical framing is that the US is a much different culture from European countries, and is massively larger in scale. Depending on the problem, some of their solutions simply can't or don't apply.

Scale is a scapegoat. Take the US region by region and you can find analogs around the world.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#238

Post by robbiep »

jiggawatts wrote: post #44

I initially dismissed it as the same category of stupid as anti-vax beliefs, but it turns out that there are a decent amount of good studies showing a link between fluoride in water and (slightly) lower IQ when pregnant mothers ingest the fluoride. Note that there is no significant effect after birth. The idea is to remove fluoride from water and advise pregnant women to use fluoride-free toothpaste. Everyone else ca…

The levels of fluoridation in order to cause difference in IQ as I understand it, from the Chinese studies, suggest that basically the effect if true occurs at around 2x+ the concentration found in supplemented water supplies.

My understanding also is that if you’re a dentist wanting to get rich, move somewhere that has unfluoridated water.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#239

Post by cameldrv »

freehorse wrote: post #123

This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact. Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it? It is completely bizarre witnessing both sides getting so polarised around a basically non-issue.

I remember the first time I went to a German dentist and he told me how amazing my teeth looked and that he could tell I must be American. Fluoride may have some downsides but it definitely has upsides.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#240

Post by nostromo »

jdminhbg wrote: post #234
freehorse wrote: post #123

This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact. Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it? It is completely bizarre witnessing both sides getting so polarised around a basically non-issue.

What I love about this comment is that one person thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and posted it, and then a bunch of other people thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and upvoted it, and not a single one of them thought to check what the "right thing" is. Meanwhile, back here on Earth-1, there's no right thing, and…

Most developed countries have stopped using fluoride. I think that’s the commenter’s point. The US and Australia are outliers here for sure.
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