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In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

nytimes.com

231–240 of 457 posts

Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because cases are very recent , as in 2024-25 and one is still pending. I got it from a local court listener who said they had filed an 800 page lawsuit against alleging various undisclosed connections between major corps, elite universities and the notorious Jeffery Epstein.

An 800 page lawsuit full of conspiracy theories? Sounds legit.

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Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#232

Anyone who has ever dealt with the US justice system as just some regular bloke knows it is broken. 90% of it is about extorting the population for funding for the courts and cops. If you can't afford a lawyer, they will provide you with a joke. And if you can afford a lawyer, now its just a question if you are willing to spend more on your lawyer than the state is hoping to extort from you. If you are, you will get…

Let's not forget how the Massachusetts AG (Carmen Ortiz) (hopefully) unintentionally drove Aaron Schwartz to suicide to protect the sanctity of elsevier's IP. Even our most obviously rotten institutions are placed on a higher pedestal than human life and recognizable justice.

Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#233
post #65

Anyone who has ever dealt with the US justice system as just some regular bloke knows it is broken. 90% of it is about extorting the population for funding for the courts and cops. If you can't afford a lawyer, they will provide you with a joke. And if you can afford a lawyer, now its just a question if you are willing to spend more on your lawyer than the state is hoping to extort from you. If you are, you will get…

Is this where the whole Europe bashing on social media comes from? US needing to believe that a better society, rule of law, social services isn’t real in Europe and impossible in general?

Let's just Europe does not send its best to represent itself on social media (a curse we all share, frankly). You talk to enough confidently-ignorant assholes and any desire to be polite vanishes. The number of europeans who think preservatives are illegal in the EU is pretty befuddling.

Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#234
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this where the whole Europe bashing on social media comes from? US needing to believe that a better society, rule of law, social services isn’t real in Europe and impossible in general?

Not only that, but it explains the disdain for Europe in the current American government. European society proves that Americans could have true freedom and quality of life if it weren't for corporations and oligarchs effectively owning our government. Fascists hate a counterexample.

The "official" line about Europe is "they get to live this way because we protect them" or some such.

Similar things are uttered by the same people about Canada, but with more denigrating comments.

In absolute terms the US is much wealthier than either. But like always with statistics it's important to look at the distribution, not the average.

Staying on topic: the Canadian legal system is probably about as bureaucratically dysfunctional as the US, just without the private super-prisons and the monetary shakedown. Which is to say it's dysfunctional and broke.

Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#235

Anyone who has ever dealt with the US justice system as just some regular bloke knows it is broken. 90% of it is about extorting the population for funding for the courts and cops. If you can't afford a lawyer, they will provide you with a joke. And if you can afford a lawyer, now its just a question if you are willing to spend more on your lawyer than the state is hoping to extort from you. If you are, you will get…

> Just like healthcare, US justice is only for people with money.

In most times and places, this is true. Ancient times, recent history, autocracies, democracies...

Justice is expensive.

Justice, and the legal college as an ideal often specifically negates this. Equality before the law. Blind justice, etc.

That said... justice is inevitably ridden with contradiction, hypocrisy and whatnot. That's what justice is.

Degrees vary, but the structure is usually constant.

Say you are a ceo, fund manager or whatnot. You are in dispute with your employer over $10m of compensation. Your bonus, performance-based compensation.

Now imagine that you are a normie, with a dispute over $10k.

Those to legal processes are entirely dissimilar. One will have teams of lawyers, many proceedings. Completely different aspects of justice will come into play. It's a different justice.

There's no way around this.

Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#236

Anyone who has ever dealt with the US justice system as just some regular bloke knows it is broken. 90% of it is about extorting the population for funding for the courts and cops. If you can't afford a lawyer, they will provide you with a joke. And if you can afford a lawyer, now its just a question if you are willing to spend more on your lawyer than the state is hoping to extort from you. If you are, you will get…

I agree 100%. I've written about this here before, but I've been involved in two civil lawsuits in my life. One was in the USA, the other was in mainland China. I should stress that I am an American, and I wasn't even in China when the lawsuit over there was moving along. The Chinese process was very fast -- it went before a judge who reached a verdict in something like ten months -- and it was extremely inexpensive.…

> . Two years on, and we were just at the beginning of "discovery" -- an amazingly invasive process that appears to be unique to the US legal system.

This is common in almost all legal systems. How else would the defendant get to examine the evidence against them and how else would you provide evidence if there was no discovery process?

Its hard to imagine there would be a legal system without it.

Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, which no one (to my knowledge) is opposed to.

Prosecutors have political lobbies. So too do prison guards and their unions. You would be hard pressed to find a union that represents prison guards which has supported ANY kind of political reform to laws. Legalization, even changes to traffic laws, prison guard unions and their members almost exclusively vote against. Just for two examples.

No no, the claim was that there are people who are trying to "make laws better."

No one disagrees with doing that. They might disagree on what "better" means, and in particular better for whom. But 95%+ of the disagreement on these is not because one side is evil and the other is not.

Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#238
post #235

Anyone who has ever dealt with the US justice system as just some regular bloke knows it is broken. 90% of it is about extorting the population for funding for the courts and cops. If you can't afford a lawyer, they will provide you with a joke. And if you can afford a lawyer, now its just a question if you are willing to spend more on your lawyer than the state is hoping to extort from you. If you are, you will get…

> Just like healthcare, US justice is only for people with money. In most times and places, this is true. Ancient times, recent history, autocracies, democracies... Justice is expensive. Justice, and the legal college as an ideal often specifically negates this. Equality before the law. Blind justice, etc. That said... justice is inevitably ridden with contradiction, hypocrisy and whatnot. That's what justice is. Deg…

> In most times and places, this is true.

Thankfully most of the instances of it not being true exist right now. Let's stay grounded in current reality or just agree not to discuss the topic. Saying "welp what do you expect" is downright worse than ignoring it entirely.

Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#239
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> European society proves that Americans could have true freedom and quality of life if it weren't for corporations and oligarchs effectively owning our government. Europeans have far more restrictions on their rights of speech, self-defence, and freedom of conscience than the Americans. They are also substantially poorer than Americans, and those numbers get worse when you account for America’s average being skewed…

The self-defence thing absolutely fascinates me. What are you guys so scared of? It's a literal fact that a gun is much more likely to be used to kill its owner (or a member of the owner's own family) than any intruder or external threat [0] Why is this such a thing in the USA? Why do you guys hold gun ownership up as this amazing freedom when owing a gun is literally, provably, way more of a threat to you and your f…

A gun is effective for suicide, yeah. We don't have suicide clinics in the states like Europe has, at least that I'm aware of. So people buy guns then off themselves. You have the causation backwards.

Re: In Jail Without a Lawyer: How a Texas Town Fails Poor Defendants

#240

Anyone who has ever dealt with the US justice system as just some regular bloke knows it is broken. 90% of it is about extorting the population for funding for the courts and cops. If you can't afford a lawyer, they will provide you with a joke. And if you can afford a lawyer, now its just a question if you are willing to spend more on your lawyer than the state is hoping to extort from you. If you are, you will get…

Let's not forget how the Massachusetts AG (Carmen Ortiz) (hopefully) unintentionally drove Aaron Schwartz to suicide to protect the sanctity of elsevier's IP. Even our most obviously rotten institutions are placed on a higher pedestal than human life and recognizable justice.

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