If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling • Hacker News Board

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#231

Post by 0_____0 » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 5:56 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #174

0_____0 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading more about it, accounts vary. There are historians who posit it was in fact inspired by Manhattan, or maybe Boston, but it's not cut and dry. Edit forgot link: https://downtownny.com/news/where-did-downtown-come-from/

I'm not especially impressed by the argument "if we assume it came from Manhattan, then we can know it came from Manhattan": > Let’s suppose that Fosdick, incoherent from distress, forgot to include the words “to the” between “down” and “town” when describing the direction in which people were fleeing. With this in mind, we can assume that Lower Manhattan is in fact the original “downtown,” as posited by Schwarzer, a…

I'm also frustrated by the lack of sourcing here but the wiki article for downtown [1] also points to Manhattan, citing a book I don't have a copy of. Allegedly it was in use in Manhattan in the 1830s, which aligns with the date given by the etymology entry linked previously.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#232

Post by terribleperson » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 8:45 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #153

terribleperson wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cat6 is twenty years old and still entirely usable today in a residential setting.

Even cat5 is not only usable but will probably give you 5gig or higher.

Yeah, I considered mentioning cat5 as well but figured cat6 was the better argument since people are still installing it today.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#233

Post by walrus01 » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 8:48 PM UTC

Gareth321 wrote: post #175

walrus01 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for an example of how good modern g.657 bend loss insensitive fiber is, for ftth applications and drop/last hundred meters, here's an example of it being abused with a staple gun and the resulting loss in dB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4wzJSInvww the above is from 12 years ago I've seen some g.657.b3 patch cords and work done for FTTH installs that are absolutely atrocious and yet continue to function properly.

This is proprietary technology and is definitely NOT representative of normal fibre cables. I know because I had had to deal with contractors doing exactly this, which crushed the cables we ran. There are many things which could be better if we were willing to pay higher prices for them. At the end of the day, cheap and good enough usually wins.

g.657.b3 is an industry standard and not proprietary, and after close to 14 years being on the market, is the default for ftth drop cables and inside patch cables now in the last mile.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#234

Post by rowanG077 » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 10:10 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #185

rowanG077 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last one may not work anymore. A ton of phones nowadays have IR filters.

They all do and always have, they just aren't perfect.

Really? I thought they usually used to have no filters, especially on the front camera. Well of course the lenses always filtered some IR light, but I wouldn't call that a filter, they also "filter" non IR light. A filter to me is a dedicated element or coating that prevents the majority of IR to be transmitted.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#235

Post by walrus01 » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 10:36 PM UTC

DannyBee wrote: post #187

Gareth321 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is proprietary technology and is definitely NOT representative of normal fibre cables. I know because I had had to deal with contractors doing exactly this, which crushed the cables we ran. There are many things which could be better if we were willing to pay higher prices for them. At the end of the day, cheap and good enough usually wins.

This is just G.657B3. They are all proprietary in their coatings for sure, but it's made to a standard. The only thing is that it's not guaranteed compatible with old G.652 fiber if you try to fusion splice it. You can get G.657A3 that is, if you want. But this is representative of A3/B3 cables for sure, and easy to get. AT&T fiber and Google Fiber actually use this particular stuff in their standard deployments. Und…

To be real frank if you're using FIS as a benchmark of price and market availability of product, you have already lost. Everything on there is 300% marked up from the price they buy it from the vendors in China and Taiwan. FIS is for enterprise end-user customers that don't know any better, not service providers who buy fiber stuff in quantity.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#236

Post by etymonline » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 2:50 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #171

0_____0 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice that non US English-speaking tend to use the term CBD instead of downtown, my assumption is that it is because of the NYC thing you mention

I don't think there's any association with New York. etymonline claims that "downtown" originally refers to the idea that the suburbs are at a higher elevation than the city proper. I don't know how much stock I'd put in that, but I trust it more than someone's random intuition about the geography of New York. ( https://www.etymonline.com/word/downtown : "The notion is originally literal, of suburbs built on heights…

https://www.etymonline.com/word/downtown The word was in want of a closer look in fresh archives. On a closer search, it's older (at least 1780s), American, but not apparently a New York reference at first.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#237

Post by kelnos » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 4:00 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #34

bhouston wrote: post #14

Yeah, we got a new house built 4 years ago and one of the biggest regrets is not enough ethernet outlets (running fibre in the house isn't practical yet) and power outlets in various places. It is really hard to think of all the places you would want them ahead of time unfortunately and as each has a cost you don't want to incur it unnecessarily. But my biggest regrets were: - Only a single ethernet port in the basem…

IMO a not-tiny house should have several sub-panels: Kitchen (enough to run the big stove + ~100A, but every outlet it's own 20A circuit), 'lab' / workshop (same idea), laundry room (lock-out breaker near / in room for connecting / disconnecting), etc. A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't f…

> MO a not-tiny house should have several sub-panels: Kitchen (enough to run the big stove + ~100A, but every outlet it's own 20A circuit)

This seems like crazy overkill. Certainly there are kitchen appliances that devour power, but... what? Assuming an electric stove/oven, you really just need one dedicated circuit for that, and then everything else can run off another circuit. If you expect to use a microwave often, you might want it on its own circuit, but everything else you might have (blender, mixer, toaster, coffee/espresso machine, electric kettle, etc.) will run just fine on a single circuit.

And regardless, you don't need a sub-panel for this. All of these can run just fine as separate circuits off your main panel.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#238

Post by kelnos » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 4:06 AM UTC

epiccoleman wrote: post #69

nkurz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't fathom how it's possible anyone would find that a negative. I'm less sure. Are there any 40 year old cables that you'd consider a positive in your house today? 20 year old cables? I wouldn't be too excited about having a house full of Coax, 10Base-T, a…

> 20 year old cables? I just bought a new house and the previous owner had phone lines everywhere (bedrooms, kitchen, office, rec room - honestly kind of weird). The house was built in 2002 and I gather that it was common at that time to put in Cat5e and just not use all the pairs. So all it took was a pleasant afternoon with the circuit toner, a new patch panel, and a few keystone jacks, and now the house is network…

Five years ago I bought a house built in 2008, and every room has at least 2 ethernet (cat6 even, good for them), 2 coax, and 2 telephone. I guess this was some sort of transition period where people were starting to understand the benefit of running ethernet, but people hadn't cut their tethers from their landlines yet. The coax is a bit weird, though. Two ports per room? Seems like overkill, but I guess it's better to have and not need than the alternative...

I've still not found a use for the coax or telephone lines. I ditched cable TV 20 years ago, and haven't had a landline since 2004. The ethernet is super useful, though, for APs (paired with a PoE switch), and to to hard-wire the office, and stuff connected to the TV in the living room.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#239

Post by kelnos » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 4:09 AM UTC

sponaugle wrote: post #196

throwaway2037 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I have 10G networking, so the ethernet switches are hot and expensive. I never understand why anyone needs anything faster than 1G (other than to flex for Internet points). Seriously, how often do you need to move data faster than 100MB/s? Almost never. FYI: A 2.5G switch should be fine. There are many fan-less options here: https://www.servethehome.com/the-ultimate-cheap-2-5gbe-switc...

"I never understand why anyone needs anything faster than 1G". i just upgraded my home network from 40g to 100g. g, not m. Anyone who does video knows the pain of 10g.

"Anyone" is of course a shorthand for "nearly everyone, but of course there are some exceptional people with exceptional needs".

I don't think your situation is common.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#240

Post by DannyBee » Thu, Mar 27, 2025, 4:45 AM UTC

quickthrowman wrote: post #223

DannyBee wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? This is 100% wrong. This is well standardized. As I posted elsewhere: G.657A1/B1 = 10mm (half an inch) G.657A2/B2 = 7.5mm (a little over a quarter inch) G.657A3/B3 = 2.5mm (less than 1/8th of an inch) The only cable you will find with a 6 inch bend radius is going to be armored interlocking fiber cable or something. You can take 2mm G657.A3 fiber cable, wrap it around a pencil, and it will work 100% fine. Even…

If I am wrong, then explain why this 24-strand plenum rated fiber optic cable has a minimum bend radius of 5.9”: https://leviton.com/content/dam/leviton/network-solutions/pr... Part number: LTP12B024 I am running a project where the low voltage contractor is pulling this fiber cable into a conduit my electricians are installing. I don’t doubt your bend radius claims on the fiber optic cables you listed, but there are…

There are not far more types of fiber cable, there are far more types of jackets :)

You are confusing the cable jacket with the fiber cable inside of it. This is the spec on the jacket they use and they didn't design this particular jacket to be flexible enough to survive flexing at the level the fiber cable inside of it can. Sure - not all jackets can be bent as much as the fiber. Some because they are not made to be as flexible (as here), some because it's basically impossible (armored interlocking jackets), etc.

I'm not sure what this changes?

The part number with suffix AB0403 (the SMF A1 fiber), if you cut the jacket, you should be able to bend the fiber cable inside at a radius of 10mm and have it be fine. It appears to be standard G.657A1 fiber cable inside.

There are really not far more types of fiber cable than i listed, and this spec sheet definitely does nothing to support that claim, since as i said, it has A1 fiber cable inside the cable jacket that will happily support a 10mm bend radius.

BTW, as an aside, I wouldn't use this stuff - just looking at this sheet and pricing at my normal fiber distributors - it is both overpriced and underspec'ed for its price. Which seems pretty typical for leviton :)

Most 24 standard I/O plenum cable is going to be 7.8mm (this is 9.9, so 30% thicker), and have less than half that bend radius even with non-flexible OFNP rated jackets. If you are being charged more than 2 bucks a foot for it, you should consider other options.