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The Burnout Machine

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Re: The Burnout Machine

#231

Post by 4ndrewl »

echelon wrote: post #228
snozolli wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineers do basically no physical labor I developed debilitating tendinitis in both wrists right about the time I graduated college. A decade later, I developed a bulged disc in my neck that ended my career. There are very real risks to your body from sitting at a computer, deep in thought all day. There's a whole other swath of health issues, too, beside injury risks.

How does a union help you with your wrists? Why do you need help? I type every single day and I don't want your health problem placing limits on my job flexibility and career advancement. If our industry fills with unions, suddenly I won't be able to job hop to positions that look interesting to me. I'll have to consider things like seniority and tenure and a bunch of artificial rules. It'll be like going back to hig…

Would you like to remove all of the benefits unions have given you?

Re: The Burnout Machine

#232

Post by WJW »

ornornor wrote: post #186
nosefurhairdo wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather have layoffs at your company or have your company go out of business due to excessive labor costs? Should poor performers be immune from layoffs? When is a layoff justifiable? I'm free to leave my job at any time, so why shouldn't my employer be free to leave me?

Your employer doesn’t need you to buy food or pay for a roof over their head. You need your employer to stay fed and housed. There is a lot more downside for you than your employer, thus a massive power asymmetry. The only way to restore the balance is solidarity between workers and it’s usually a union (or a guild)

Get some financial discipline and arrange an emergency fund covering at least 6 months of expenses. It's amazing how much less leverage your employer is able to exert if you can make good on a threat of leaving.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#233

Post by ghiculescu »

jacobgkau wrote: post #194
stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

My initial reaction to this whole thing was the same as yours (not that I have any love lost for academics). Software engineers do basically no physical labor and usually get paid better than many people who physically work way harder. On the whole, software engineers are not "the victim," as you said. However, your examples made me think. > In other places, you can have a typical 40h/week job at a salary way better…

No industry has 0% unemployment. Most people would kill for the employability of the median software engineer.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#234

Post by sheepscreek »

stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

Okay. Reality check mate. It was like that till before COVID. Don’t be under the wrong assumption that it’s anything like that now, or ever will be. Maybe your experience was different? I can sure as hell relate to this and I’m not even in the valley.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#235

Post by Minor49er »

stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

> Or take a gap year to regenerate, or reinvent, yourself.

I'm curious about people who have done this and how they've handled things like insurance, taxes, and getting back into the workforce after such a long gap. It seems like a big risk since there's no guarantee of employment. I'd also imagine having a long break would be looked on unfavorably by interviewers and make it harder to get back in

Re: The Burnout Machine

#236

Post by echelon »

4ndrewl wrote: post #231
echelon wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a union help you with your wrists? Why do you need help? I type every single day and I don't want your health problem placing limits on my job flexibility and career advancement. If our industry fills with unions, suddenly I won't be able to job hop to positions that look interesting to me. I'll have to consider things like seniority and tenure and a bunch of artificial rules. It'll be like going back to hig…

Would you like to remove all of the benefits unions have given you?

Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind.

Rather than retiring on that money, I'm back at it again, and I'm working even harder.

I know what mediocrity and complacency is. I've worked surrounded by it, and I'll do anything to avoid it. I don't want that bullshit where coworkers strive to do the minimum and everybody plays hot potato to see who will take responsibility.

I'll take responsibility. And I'll take the high comp that comes with it. Not have some union pencil in my salary band according to arbitrary rules that don't directly map to solving customer problems.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#237

Post by JimTheMan »

acuozzo wrote: post #173
JimTheMan wrote: post #134

These articles about work conditions in tech feel profoundly out of touch with the rest of the world. It's like reading a gazette from Mary Antoinette talking about how tough her life was (pre-revolution..) The rest of the world outside of tech, looks at tech and sees a bunch of very overpaid developers with quite cushy perks... Like sure, it would be great to unionise... But if tech workers don't acknowledge their p…

> rest of the world outside of tech, looks at tech and sees a bunch of very overpaid developers They most certainly do, but it says A LOT more about them that they see developers as overpaid rather than themselves as underpaid. Propaganda from the owners of capital has worked well by ensuring that anyone relying on an income is more likely to look left, right, and strike down than to ever consider looking up.

We see ourselves as underpaid, and tech workers as overpaid. (For right or wrong)

But you're completely right, Capital has done amazing job of pulling the wool over our eyes hasn't it.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#238

Post by sureglymop »

daedrdev wrote: post #200
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #18

Class consciousness is firmly in the zeitgeist: witness season 1 of Severance. There is no going back from this, as once you are disillusioned it is much harder to be re-illusioned. There will be some sort of collective response by white-collar professionals at some point. I think people are ready for change.

I strongly feel that groups within the "classes" often have vast differences that make me question the idea of class consciousness. A well off tech emloyee has interests that align far more with those with wealth than a small business owner who might have interests far more aligned with blue collar workers. And don't even get me started on social differences, like LGBT right etc that divide people.

Social differences shouldn't make you question class consciousness. Quite the opposite is true, to be class conscious means to have recognized what economic class you are in regardless of any other features.

Hidden there is a good point though. Social differences can be leveraged as a means to deter class consciousness. Let's take the idea of the wage gap for example. Now both male and female workers can be underpaid. As a result, everyone is less likely to become class conscious and realize that, if they instead fight over a wage difference within their class.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#239

Post by Apocryphon »

rglover wrote: post #9

The ideal is to encourage developers to start their own small businesses and support each other by being customers. That, and when you find success/profitability, don't sell to a big tech nightmare or PE—just run the business. The "machine" is a natural side-effect of mega corporations and creating unions will just encourage more creativity around stealing your soul or getting rid of your entirely.

Reminds me of this comment I saw recently

> Are you advocating for everyone to create their own SaaS here or what? End of the day, most engineers need to join employers. We can’t have 10M+ different SaaS out there and each engineer develops their own personal brand of it. That’s not how software scales.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43379353

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