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Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

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Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#231

Post by therealpygon »

Just wait until people realize that the easiest jobs to automate aren’t usually the ones that pay $9/hr. Automated performance metrics, direct monitoring of employee active screen time, so on and so forth. All the while managers were thinking how much easier it was going to make their job.

We’re at the point that an AI can now perform the requisite performance metric failing, sternly worded cautionary performance review, translate the verbal conversation for HR records as documentation for a subsequent firing if needed, and simply not care that your kid died and it has been a rough month.

Left to their own devices, the corporate dystopia is pretty bleak.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#232

Post by theshrike79 »

protocolture wrote: post #149
ketzo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way people on HN sometimes talk about "management," you'd think the universal experience is 1% good, 9% benign, 90% actively seeking the downfall of civilization Managers seem like a good example of the "toupee problem" -- the ones you notice, and really remember, are the bad ones; the best, you might never see at all.

I think you also need to account for the amount of bad. Like a bad programmer can push terrible code, get caught at review and performance managed. But a bad manager can cause much more harm. An organisation with bad management can punch itself in the face very hard and cause significant issues. Like I have only seen a terrible management culture in 2 of my employees, but for 1 of them, it lead to: 30 or 40 careers d…

There's a reason why the saying goes "people don't quit companies, they quit bosses".

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#233

Post by johnnyanmac »

basisword wrote: post #97

I don't understand the shit 'managers' get on here. I've been in this industry for 15+ years and with one or two rare exceptions every manager has been great. They respect my time, when I need something they're incredibly helpful, and they care about my career development. IMO the culling over managers over the past few years is really a way to make sure you don't have someone you can discuss career development, prom…

You don't quit companies, you quit managers. I've fortunately had great ones who balanced being into my development with making sure the job was being done. But that's not a universal experience, sadly. I work in games so you can find plenty of horror stories on what happens under bad management without me giving second hand stories of other teams I worked next to being raked in the coals.

I simply want to focus on working "in the ground" so management never really rung for me. My endgame goals focus on the opposite of managing a large beauracracy of tech workers on a massive project.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#234

Post by johnnyanmac »

ketzo wrote: post #107
steveBK123 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely unique experience for you probably. I think career wise in 20 years I'd break down my experience as - 25% benign, 25% malign, 50% good. This is across 6+ companies, 15-20 managers.

The way people on HN sometimes talk about "management," you'd think the universal experience is 1% good, 9% benign, 90% actively seeking the downfall of civilization Managers seem like a good example of the "toupee problem" -- the ones you notice, and really remember, are the bad ones; the best, you might never see at all.

It's just negativity bias. We're hardwired to remember our wounds and avoid getting them again. And apparently we're hardwired to engage with those more than praising the great ones.

For some harder numbers though: it seems to also follow the pareto principle : https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/13/most-amer...

20% of "fair/poor" management ruining the 80% of good.

(though this is from 2023. A lot has changed in sentiments since then).

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#235

Post by SebFender »

For what it's worth - I've been in tech for close to 30 years and honestly met 2 or 3 managers that really did their job well and truly helped.

The rest got jobs from mergers, takeovers, friendships, time or lack of strategy/interest from others.

And what happened to the good ones you may ask? They all left the places where I was to grow somewhere else.

Management mostly creates politics (ghost & real ones) - I would love for management to truly help teams employees and projects - but they rarely do.

To be a good manager you need to manage up and down - but most only manage up...

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#236

Post by johnnyanmac »

razeh wrote: post #157
johnfn wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A manager can put you on PIP, have you fired, and make your life miserable for months to years. What can an engineer do? Write some bad code that is a little annoying to refactor?

In finance a bad engineer can bankrupt the firm.

I'd love to hear how a single IC can do this.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#237

Post by johnnyanmac »

SebFender wrote: post #235

For what it's worth - I've been in tech for close to 30 years and honestly met 2 or 3 managers that really did their job well and truly helped. The rest got jobs from mergers, takeovers, friendships, time or lack of strategy/interest from others. And what happened to the good ones you may ask? They all left the places where I was to grow somewhere else. Management mostly creates politics (ghost & real ones) - I would…

If you want to fix the problem, look at the incentives. Management hasn't had an incentive to manage down in decades, because the executives no longer care about tenure nor productivity in the traditional sense (because their incentives are also messed up, but that's for another post).

You need a good culture with proper incentives to be rewarded as a good manager. But that's not really the world most live in these days. Instead, the good get exploited by the bad and either leave to protect themselves or cause discourse as they try to do their job and inevitably be overthrown by those above.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#238

Post by johnnyanmac »

dangus wrote: post #69
iLoveOncall wrote: post #4

This is old news and refers to the 15% figure that was announced last year (more than 6 months ago!) and for which the "layoffs" are already completed. Overall, nothing at all happened, managers looked after their own kind and the worst that happened for some was having to go back to IC positions. The article is most likely AI generated since it says this was announced "last month" and the article is from March, but…

These numbers always seem huge but also don't forget that Amazon employs 1.5 million people. A 14,000 employee cut is less than one percent. Of course I know there are a lot of warehouse and delivery employees but they have managers, too.

It still is big. Let's not start to treat 10's of thousands of skill labor losing their jobs through no fault of their own as an everyday occurance. We may as well leave the US at that point.

Re: Amazon plans to lay off 14,000 managerial positions to save $3.5B yearly

#240

Post by johnnyanmac »

nextworddev wrote: post #62
ginko wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI :)

You are being downvoted but we know it’s coming

The most generic dystopia novel premise imaginable. but it seems like America is gonna treat it like gospel instead. Anything to not pay the working class.
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