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Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

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Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#231
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if a sufficiently capable entity is interested in snooping on an individual like this, mimicking a sewer tv inspection van is a trivial endeavour. You don’t know at all what that van was doing.

Yes we do. It was a sewer inspection van. If it was the NSA, their van wouldn't look so goofy that people took one look at the photo and assumed it had to be an NSA van, which is what happened here. This is a bad movie plot trope: the bad guys can't simultaneously be omniscient and so dumb they're trivially outed like this, just like the real supervillain isn't going to monologue while you free yourself from the chai…

Now I'm starting to wonder if that guy habitually leaves the door open because he got sick of people winking at him with a wry smile every time he had to go to a job.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, it seems the 'real' sewer cleaning company uses a bunch of tech to do their inspections, etc.: https://specializedmaintenance.com/services/digital-tv-inspe... (Which would make it an excellent van for the 3-letter spooks to copy, so not really persuasive either way)

I wanted to point out that when visiting those sites from Germany (nationalplant.com and the specializedmaintenance.com website) it shows the same unavailable geoblocked message. I wouldn't have recognized it but after opening both links in new tabs on my phone I thought I forgot to open one of the links in this thread and I double-checked it. Are those fake companies both hosted on wordfence or something? What are t…

Upon clicking the link above, I get:

Your access to this site has been limited by the site owner

Your access to this service has been limited. (HTTP response code 503)

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me for being obtuse, but what exactly are you claiming here? Are election results being faked?

They aren't. Fewer than 3/4 of eligible voters voted in 2020. In general, somewhere around 10% to a third of eligible voters actually vote in primaries, which are the elections that actually have the most impact on office holding. Nobody needs to fake election results when Americans just don't show up to vote. It's a disquietingly under-informed and apathetic electorate.

> Fewer than 3/4 of eligible voters voted in 2020.

This is not completely true[0]. I'd also give the advice that you shouldn't take a "nationwide" average to mean much of anything. The wikipedia article shows wide variation across the states which is true for almost any statistic you can think of.

> actually vote in primaries

Bernie voters might give you a hint as to why. I guess this is the problem Mayor Pete's "shadow" app was meant to solve. It honestly seems like parties don't genuinely like people voting in primaries. The person who's "turn" it is might lose.

> elections that actually have the most impact

Unfortunately we're talking about the legislature here because they write the laws in question and are the proper party to wage your grievances against. Have you ever looked into how competitive those primaries actually are? Anyways this is why I vote for Greens and Libertarians. Then they might stand a chance of cracking 5% and getting recognized fully by the Federal Election Commission.

> Americans just don't show up to vote.

All evidence to the contrary. What they don't do is vote in senate elections. There districts with as low as 25% voter turn out. Which means you only need 12% of the eligible population to turn out for you to secure your seat. So you're right. No need to cheat. Just be arbitrary and capricious to the point that busy and worried people no longer feel that using their time in the voting booth can actually change something.

> It's a disquietingly under-informed and apathetic electorate.

As always, back to where this conversation starts, who should bear the responsibility for this? I don't think blaming the electorate itself brings you anywhere other than helping to chase people further away from an important civil institution.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States...

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#234

Related, I'm rewatching "Enemy of the State" a 1998 film about government surveillance and assassinations and the deep state. Underrated in my opinion. Has Gene Hackman (also topical, which is why I am rewatching) and Will Smith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_State_(film)

Pretty cool is that they mention Keyhole a few times. Keyhole (later Google Earth) was created a year later, in 1999.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#236
post #219

> who risked civil liability and criminal prosecution to help expose a massive spying program that violated the rights of millions of Americans. That's how corrupt the system is. You get punished for revealing crimes against everyone. Who is going to erect statues for him and people like him?

We could do it. We could fundraise to cast a bronze of him and put it anywhere we like. It wouldn't take that many people or that much time, in the grand scheme of things.

Actually, the world might be a nicer place with more statues and less goofy abstract modernist art in public for even more money than bronzes.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#237

Nooooooo! He was my next door neighbor a few years ago, and I knew him as a person before I realized that I knew him as a hero. His dogs were fiercely protective of his house, which is perfectly understandable. One day I saw a "sewer cleaning" van behind his house, and I have a hard time believing that's what it really was: https://honeypot.net/2025/03/12/rip-mark-klein.html

That must have been surreal.. knowing him first as just a neighbor, then realizing the weight of what he did

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#238
post #46

Nooooooo! He was my next door neighbor a few years ago, and I knew him as a person before I realized that I knew him as a hero. His dogs were fiercely protective of his house, which is perfectly understandable. One day I saw a "sewer cleaning" van behind his house, and I have a hard time believing that's what it really was: https://honeypot.net/2025/03/12/rip-mark-klein.html

This is crazy.. you guys are focused on vans and mini stories when all his sacrifice and that of thousand if not more americans was snuffed. `Congress intervened by passing the FISA Amendments Act which, in part, granted “retroactive immunity” to the telecommunications carriers for their involvement in the NSA spying programs. This massive grant of immunity for past violations of multiple state and federal laws prote…

He risked everything, and in the end, the system closed ranks to protect itself. Retroactive immunity was basically a way of saying - "Yep, it was illegal, but it doesn't matter."

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#239
post #89
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is crazy.. you guys are focused on vans and mini stories when all his sacrifice and that of thousand if not more americans was snuffed. `Congress intervened by passing the FISA Amendments Act which, in part, granted “retroactive immunity” to the telecommunications carriers for their involvement in the NSA spying programs. This massive grant of immunity for past violations of multiple state and federal laws prote…

Mark Klein was not some mythical hero, but a real person who did heroic things. It's nice to be reminded of that. If anything, I find it inspiring.

That kind of courage is rare, and it makes his story even more powerful. Real people can make a difference

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#240
post #61

R.I.P. He was a true and brave whistleblower. I had the luck of getting a hold of his docs when they were under court seal, and we published them at Wired. Only met and interviewed him later. He was a gentle man with a moral compass. A rarity even among whistleblowers. The world is poorer without him.

A gentle man with a strong moral compass
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