Is it out of the realm of possibility to look at this move as a way to take down the moat of closed source AI companies?
I mean strategically this could be the first use of open source in this way.
DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
231–240 of 268 posts
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#232> Starting next week, we'll open-source 5 repos – one daily drop Probably counts as announcement of announcement? Let’s wait for the actual repo drops before discussing them, especially because there are no details about what will be open sourced other than > These are humble building blocks of our online service: documented, deployed and battle-tested in production.
Yup, I posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43129444 before I saw that you'd made the point already.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
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"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Emotionally I agree, but... o1 was a paradigm shift. Nothing DeepSeek has done is on that level yet. DeepSeek themselves would agree. Supposedly Liang Wenfeng himself flew to US to gather information when o1 was launched.
Maybe in terms of advancing scientific knowledge but DeepSeek has achieved a paradigm shift back from opex to capex. Certain applications are now economically viable when you don't have to pay per request and don't have to fight NVIDIA/sanctions for the privilege
how much of that cost is hidden/subsidized though? Less I missed something; there's lots of claims but lots of fuzz also. If you bring up API fees; CCP is notorious for subsidizing local business to operate at a loss on the global stage.
You aren't paying per request/GPU access, CCP is.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Postgres and MySql are free but hasn't stopped Oracle from making tens of billions each year in database subscriptions.
IMO it's harder to move away from Oracle DB than from Open AI. The type of businesses that rely on Oracle DB have all the characteristics of a "tech kidnap victim". Huge DB-driven projects, old bad code with few tests, and a profit margin low enough to not be able to fund a migration to a different DB. I think businesses that rely on new AI models are very different.
It's still way too early. Many AI labs will fold, fall behind, get bought out. In the end, it'll always end up with 1-2 big ones left standing and a few smaller ones fighting for scraps.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re not wrong, it’s a hell lot more exciting to watch players organically emerging from a competitive landscape with stuff you can put your hands on today (or next week) than players hand-picked and tasked by governments, making hollow announcements before they have anything interesting to show.
It's not just that. It's that the rest of the world is moving at light speed compared with EU. If people in EU want this project to survive, they need to change attitude, a lot. If they are OK to let the EU project fail, they need to consider what the world will be. Europe has never been composed of dwarfs, but that's what every single EU country has become in the past 50 years. Without US influence, away from big pl…
> Europe has never been composed of dwarfs, but that's what every single EU country has become in the past 50 years
How do CERN, ESA and Airbus fit into this worldview? They are unquestionably giants in their respective fields, from my POV.
I'm fully cognisant of SpaceX vs Arianne in reusability, but that is cancelled out by outcomes/culture at Boeing vs Airbus. Broadly speaking general, Europe is either number 1 or number 2 (behind the US) in engineering and hard sciences; there's no reason to give up because they fall to #4 or 5 in some fields like software, or "AI" specifically, especially since I'm convinced that the irrational exuberance in the US will come to an end when (not if) investors start demanding the illusive ROI on AI investments. When the music stops, a lot of the "advanced" AI companies that look amazing now will be insolvent, but Euro projects will still be funded.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't Musk still on the open side? Isn't that what the whole Musk - Altman conflict is about?
Maybe. We’ll see if he open sources grok 2 or if he just want others to open source their models and weights.
I don't think it's justified to say that, he can do Grok anyway he wants, he never promised -or make it his mission- to open it up. It's a different story for "Open"AI.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#238This may be my cynical take, but this cannot be out of good will or noble intentions. There has to be an ulterior motive.
It's cynical, probably because you have only been consuming cynical news.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Power does terrible things to people, we really need to stop letting that happen.
"Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible." - Frank Herbert
I don't think there's a lot of historical precedent for the kind of power that is possible today, logistics used to be a limiting factor. Maybe you can be god king of the universe as your day job and enjoy a bit of sanity on your time off--but then again maybe not. We're in uncharted waters.
Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Appeals to authority are so totally unconvincing. What claims from the semianalysis article do you think are false? And based on what evidence?
Parent Highflyer hedgefund only been around for a few years with 8B AUM, aka their single digit % management fees since founding is in low 100s millions total (for all operating expenses), hence fiscally cannot acquire 1B+ of just hardware capex. Deepseek having access to that much hardware doesn't pass basic smell test, and semi analysis has been dodging call outs on socials for this basic math illiteracy.