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Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

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Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#231

Post by dev1ycan »

high_na_euv wrote: post #198
nerder92 wrote: post #155

This article is entirely built on 2 big and wrong assumptions: 1. AI code ability will be the same as is today 2. Companies will replace people for AI en masse at a given moment in time Of course both these assumptions are wrong, the quality of code produced by AI will improve dramatically as model evolves. And is not even just the model itself. The tooling, the Agentic capabilities and workflow will entirely change…

>Of course both these assumptions are wrong, the quality of code produced by AI will improve dramatically as model evolves. How are you so sure?

he's not, just another delusional venture capitalist that hasn't bothered to look up the counter arguments to his point of view, done by mathematicians

Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#232

Post by [deleted] »

Draiken wrote: post #107
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tech innovation destroys lives in our current capitalist society because only the owners get the benefits. If you want to become a (partial) owner, buy stocks. :-)

Do I really own Intel/Tesla/Microsoft by buying their stock? No I don't. I can't influence anything on any of these companies unless I was already a billionaire with a real seat at the table. Even on startups where, in theory, employees have some skin in the game, it's not really how it works is it? You still can't influence almost anything and you're susceptible to all the bad decisions the founders will make to app…

[deleted]

Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#233

Post by dragonwriter »

My opinion: tech isn't firing programmers for AI. If is firing peogrammers because of the financial environment, and waving around AI as a fig leaf to pretend that it is not really cutting back in output.

When the financial environment loosens again, there’ll be a new wave of tech hiring (which is about equally likely to publicly be portrayed as either reversing the AI firing or exploiting new opportunities due to AI, neither of which will be the real fundamental driving force.)

Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#234

Post by Workaccount2 »

jvanderbot wrote: post #122

What evidence do we have that AI is actually replacing programmers already? The article treats messaging on this as a forgone conclusion, but I strongly suspect it's all hype-cycle BS to cover layoffs, or a misreading of "Meta pivots to AI" headlines.

I can say my company stopped contracting for test system design, and we use a mix of models now to achieve the same results. Some of these have been running without issue for over a year now.

Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#235

Post by SirFatty »

causal wrote: post #180
SirFatty wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zuckerberg said it. https://www.inc.com/kit-eaton/mark-zuckerberg-plans-to-repla...

Planning to and succeeding at are very different things

I'd be willing to bet that "planning to" means the plan is being executed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/meta-starts-eliminatin...

Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#236

Post by surfingdino »

bloomingkales wrote: post #29

I'm sure there is a formal proof someone can flesh out. - Half assed developer can construct a functional program with AI prompts. - Deployed at scale for profit - Many considerations were not considered due to lack of expertise (security, for example) - Bad things happen for users. I have at least two or three ideas that I've canned for now because it's just not safe for users (AI apps of that type require a lot of…

Deployed how? People who ask AI to "Write me a clone of Twitter" are incapable of deploying code.

Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#237

Post by lolinder »

menaerus wrote: post #216
Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company allowed us to use it but most developers around me didn't reach out to the correct people to be able to use it. Yes I find it incredibly helpful and try to tell them. But it's only helpful in small contexts, auto completing things, small snippets, generating small functions. Any large scale changes like most of these AI companies try to push them being capable of doing it just falls straight on its face. I…

Did you have to do any preparation steps before you asked from a model to do the large scale change or there were no steps involved? For example, did you simply ask for the change or did you give a model a chance to learn about the codebase. I am genuinely asking, I'm curious because I haven't had a chance to use those models at work.

Not OP, but I've had the same experience, and that's with tools that purport to handle the context for you.

And frankly, if you can't automate context, then you don't have an AI tool that can realistically replace a programmer. If I have to manually select which of my 10000 files are relevant to a given query, then I still need to be in the loop and will also likely end up doing almost as much work as I would have to just write the code.

Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#238

Post by 65 »

swiftcoder wrote: post #205
SirFatty wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zuckerberg said it. https://www.inc.com/kit-eaton/mark-zuckerberg-plans-to-repla...

In the ~8 years since I worked there, Zuckerberg announced that we'd all be spending our 8 hour workdays in the Metaverse, and when that didn't work out, he pivoted to crypto currency. He's just trend-chasing, like all the other executives who are afraid of being left behind as their flagship product bleeds users...

We gotta put AI Crypto in the Blockchain Metaverse!

Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#239

Post by Workaccount2 »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #203
jvanderbot wrote: post #122

What evidence do we have that AI is actually replacing programmers already? The article treats messaging on this as a forgone conclusion, but I strongly suspect it's all hype-cycle BS to cover layoffs, or a misreading of "Meta pivots to AI" headlines.

It'll happen gradually over time, with more pressure on programmers to "get more done". I think it's useful to look at what has already happened at another, much smaller profession -- translators -- as a precursor to what will happen with programmers. 1. translation software does a mediocre job, barely useful as a tool; all jobs are safe 2. translation software does a decent job, now expected to be used as time-savin…

I actually know a professional translator and while a year ago he was full of worry, he now is much more relaxed about it.

It turns out that like art, many people just want a human doing the translation. There is a strong romantic element to it, and it seems humans just have a strong natural inclination to only want other humans facilitating communication.

Re: Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

#240

Post by hedora »

swiftcoder wrote: post #194

Every generation sees a new technology that old timers loudly worry "will destroy programming as a profession". I'm old enough to remember when that new and destructive technology was Java, and the greybeards were all heavily invested in inline assembly as an essential skill of the serious programmer. The exact same 3 steps in the article happened about a decade ago during the "javascript bootcamp" craze, and while t…

I'm not old enough to remember these, but they were certainly more disruptive than AI has been so far (reverse chronological order):

- The word processor

- The assembly line

- Trains

- Internal combustion engines

I do remember some false starts from the 90's:

- Computer animation will put all the animation studios out of business

- Software agents will replace all middlemen with computers

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