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US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

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Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#231

Post by benreesman »

Everyone seems to start with the premise that it benefits “the United States” to “lead” in AI. But that’s not obvious at all!

It seems bad for rights holders of many kinds of intellectual property (or else they wouldn’t be filing so many lawsuits).

It seems bad for progress in the field: for the most part our frontier vendors don’t contribute innovations back to the commons in anything like the way that DeepSeek has. This seems to mean that effort is duplicated at tremendous cost in a way that props up famine gouging markups for NVIDIA but little else.

It seems bad for the employees of those same vendors: they’ve been getting laid off left, right, and center with AI as a (dubious) justification.

It’s far from obvious that further growth will be powered by renewable energy, there is a lot of talk indicating that much of it will end up being coal brought back on line.

And even the investors are shaping up to be heavily in Japan and the UAE if this Stargate stuff is real.

It sounds like Mag7 shareholders maybe? And even that isn’t clear?

Maybe I’m missing something obvious, but extremely influential people in the space are selling this family of plan with visions of “wages crashing to zero”, which yeah no thanks.

https://x.com/pmarca/status/1882993091784880557

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#232

Post by bikenaga »

The bill is here: https://www.hawley.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Haw...

I'm reading this and it can't possibly mean what it says.

Section 3 says:

    (a) PROHIBITION ON IMPORTATION.—On and after the date that is 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the importation into the United States of artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence technology or intellectual property developed or produced in the People’s Republic of China is prohibited.

    (b) PROHIBITION ON EXPORT.—On and after the date that is 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the export, reexport, or in-country transfer of artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence technology or intellectual property to or within the People’s Republic of China is prohibited.
Note that in (a) and (b) the third part of the "or" clause is "intellectual property". It isn't qualified as (say) "artificial intelligence intellectual property".

And in Sec. 2 (6) "Intellectual property" is defined as work protected by copyright, property protected by patent, stuff which is trademarked, or trade secrets.

But any preprint on (e.g.) arxiv.org is copyrighted, hence "intellectual property" under this definition. So as written, this seems to prohibit the exchange of research in general with people in the PRC. The restrictions on AI are problematic enough, but this is just ridiculous.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#233

Post by tptacek »

dmix wrote: post #22
ijk wrote: post #7

On the one hand Hawley proposes a lot of things that don't ever get close to becoming law. On the other hand, we did ban TikTok (which is currently unavailable on the app stores because of the ban). I can think of few ways to more effectively destroy any US advantage in AI compared with the sheer efficiency of making it illegal to learn from what competing countries have achieved. From the article, it sounds like the…

Not sure it’s even worth speculating on a bill that’s merely been proposed. This one sounds DOA. But yeah TikTok ban was a very bad precedent, mostly because it was based on speculative risks, not hard proof of existing behaviour (TikTok not engaging didn't help at all either). Regardless of the merits I too hope it doesn’t have a ripple effect. National security is such a huge brush you could paint anything you want…

For what it's worth: in the jurisprudence of HN moderation, stories about proposed bills are off-topic.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#234

Post by commiepatrol »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #211
theossuary wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats how most propaganda works. Russia, for example, has been publicizing cases of extreme racism in the US for years to demoralize black people. [1] Hell this has been going on since WWII, when other countries saw how the US treated their black troops, and used it to damage loyalty. [2] Nothing works like the truth, if the US could just stop being so racist it'd be that much harder to divide us. It seems like that'…

The funny thing is Russia an China can claim to be less racist as they are homogenous societies.

Russia is homogenous? Interesting.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#235

Post by gnkyfrg »

theossuary wrote: post #81
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truly, what do you even do as the CCP or some other party that would like to spread anti-American propaganda? Literally just point to the actual, factual state of this country and tell me it isn't a rolling joke.

Thats how most propaganda works. Russia, for example, has been publicizing cases of extreme racism in the US for years to demoralize black people. [1] Hell this has been going on since WWII, when other countries saw how the US treated their black troops, and used it to damage loyalty. [2] Nothing works like the truth, if the US could just stop being so racist it'd be that much harder to divide us. It seems like that'…

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Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#236

Post by gnkyfrg »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #212
jimmygrapes wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took bipartisan pardons/commutations across 2 disparately ideological faction leaders to even the outcomes for both groups of people who purportedly aimed to overthrow the government that let them all be free.

Black Lives Matter only sought to "overthrow" the system in place if you presume first that racism is a core component of it.

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Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#237

Post by notatoad »

benreesman wrote: post #231

Everyone seems to start with the premise that it benefits “the United States” to “lead” in AI. But that’s not obvious at all! It seems bad for rights holders of many kinds of intellectual property (or else they wouldn’t be filing so many lawsuits). It seems bad for progress in the field: for the most part our frontier vendors don’t contribute innovations back to the commons in anything like the way that DeepSeek has.…

in an environment where the government isn't clearly working at cross-purposes to the people, the argument would be that the country where the leading AI companies are based will be the country who has the most power to regulate AI.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#238

Post by datavirtue »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #84
tptacek wrote: post #73

This is performative and obviously stupid, but to add some technical color to it: in the alternate universe where this passed, rather than floating around as a signalling tool for Josh Hawley, ordinary violators would see nothing resembling a 20 year sentence. This statute falls under the 2M5 section of the sentencing guideline (for export violations); it has a base offense level of 14 (15-21 months) and is probation…

Too many people have it now. What would be likely to happen if the bill passed is selective enforcement. Many dictatorships have very broad laws that almost everyone inevitably breaks, but as long as you don't challenge the dictator or speak out against them in any way, you are safe. But the moment you speak out against the government, suddenly the law gets enforced, since in the governments eyes, you have now commit…

"challenge the dictator or speak out against them" No chance of that.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#239

Post by rileymat2 »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #169
majormajor wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Many people just don't think the First Amendment applies to foreign nations. (Why would it??) And that restrictions on corporate control/structure for the US-based parts are not speech issues (e.g. imagine if free speech was a defense against an anti-trust prosecution). The simplest case for banning TikTok is simple reciprocity. China is no longer a market that needs the level of protectionism they currently ha…

I think you're both conflating the concept of "free speech = good" with what forms of speech are, at this moment, permitted or forbidden by US law. For someone who believes in the concept of free speech, the fact that US constitutional rights to free speech in practice almost certainly do not protect overseas business interests is really an embarrassing corner case. Even if you do genuinely consider national and fore…

https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/lamont-v-postmaster-...

This case shows that there is a first amendment right to receive.

Re: US bill proposes jail time for people who download DeepSeek

#240

Post by gnkyfrg »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #220
realreal89 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an actual attorney, you should be disbarred. Not sorry.

Disbarred for being realistic and honest about what a mistake that prosecution was? I voted for Harris BTW.

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