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Garmin's –$40B Pivot

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Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#231
I love my garmin, it just feels like the perfect fit for me. I have zero interest in the Apple Watch, mainly because I don’t want yet another device bombarding me with notifications. Plus, the Apple Watch just doesn’t seem like something I’d be comfortable getting sweaty and slathered in sunscreen every day. The rubber and somewhat industrial design of the Garmin feels like it's just made for running, not for juggling texts or emails mid-workout.

I first started tracking my runs with apple health, basically carrying my phone in my pocket to measure distance. Back then, I had no weekly mileage targets, or pace goals. Just a curiosity about how far I could run. Eventually, I switched to Strava. I felt a bit of friction around starting and stopping runs on the app, but I loved watching my paces gradually improve month by month.

Eventually I signed up for my first marathon, taking my iPhone in my pocket and first gen airpods that ran out of battery halfway through, but I finished in 3:48. I stuck with the iPhone for a while, but one day I zoomed into the strava map and realized the iPhone’s GPS was unreliable—it added zigzags to my routes, inflating my mileage and making me seem faster than I really was (massive ego bruise). So I went to research accurate GPS watches, and I remember seeing people test them by running straight lines to check for accuracy on a map. The forerunner was the most satisfying straight on the map, and so I bought that in May 2020.

So I’ve had a garmin since May 2020 and still love it. The simple start/stop mechanism has become a ritual for me. I also appreciate the heart rate screen, which shows my zone using colored ranges—it’s what I used to pace myself during races. For example, I’d aim to stay under 160 bpm during half marathons and marathons. With the Forerunner, I brought my time down to 3:11 for the marathon and 1:24 for the half marathon. That’s when I hit an inflection point: I couldn’t improve further without serious training plans.

I tried using Garmin Coach but made the mistake of choosing plans slightly below my fitness level. As a result, I didn’t run enough hard workouts and plateaued. After that, I lost motivation and took a break from running and lost fitness-- my old 130BPM pace became my new 160BPM pace. When I returned, I spent a year trying to regain it. I watched countless YouTube videos and read Reddit threads claiming, "every amateur runs too fast and too few miles." So I focused on high mileage without prioritizing aerobic envelope workouts. My fitness stagnated—my half marathon slowed to 1:27, and my 5K and 10K times didn’t improve. I also psyched myself by overshooting mileage targets, leaving me either sick or over-fatigued on race days.

Eventually, I gave myself permission to run hard again, and my fitness returned. I worked my way back to a 3:02 marathon last year. Now my favorite workflow involves using the VDOT app as my personal coach. I set a weekly mileage target, specify which days I can handle hard workouts, and it generates a detailed plan for me. For example: warm up for 2 miles, run 400m at a target pace of 5:40 with 1-minute rests, and cool down for 2 miles. The garmin integrates as what I call my "buzz coach" through each stage of the workout. Too fast? Buzz. Too slow? Buzz. Next lap? Buzz. The alerts really help with making real-time adjustments. Overall I find this setup eliminates the decision fatigue of training. I used to obsess over pacing, distance goals, and analyzing every bit of my data. Now it feels like I'm just getting outside, running a lot, and having fun with it—and ironically, I've just started improving again.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#232
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple Watch is also a terribly designed device for running. Too much of its functions rely on interacting with the touchscreen, something you are either unable to do with sweaty hands when running or don't want to do as it draws your attention away for a prolonged amount of time and hurts your form. Garmin's unwavering commitment to physical buttons and how you can customize what they do is what makes them the go…

Genuinely curious, what do you need to change mid-run on your watch? I set an apple music playlist to start, open a run on WorkOutDoors, and go. I really am only interested in heart rate, distance traveled and pace. And if I need to stop for anything walking back to my apartment after a session I have apple pay. Granted, I'm not a serious runner, I only do it as a supplement for my muay thai training (i.e. I'm only r…

I'm usually on the same main screen with time/distance/heart rate, but when I change screen that would mostly be for: - Map/routing, useful for trail running or when running in an area you are unfamiliar with - Elevation, vertical speed (useful for trail running too) - Workouts (steps/next step/instructions/duration/etc.)

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#233

Interesting article. My partner bought an Apple watch a couple of years ago and I was shocked at what a poor value proposition it was. Very expensive and wouldn't even hold a charge for a day. I guess you get used to it but having to charge my watch every day would drive me mad. Obviously there are things it will do better than a Garmin (and things it can do that a Garmin simply can't) but overall it didn't make sens…

I've been using a Garmin Forerunner GPS watch for years, and what I've found I like the most about it is actually the Garmin Connect app on my phone. I don't think Garmin gets enough credit as a software shop. Connect is a great application for tracking your workouts over time. A fair number of runners even use Garmin's workout plans from the app. Even compared to running apps exclusively for iOS and Android I think…

I have tried a bunch of options and the Rabbit running shorts with a rear phone zipper pocket are the least annoying. They hold a large phone securely without bouncing around but but are still easy to access on the move.

https://www.runinrabbit.com/collections/mens-shorts

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#234
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple Watch is also a terribly designed device for running. Too much of its functions rely on interacting with the touchscreen, something you are either unable to do with sweaty hands when running or don't want to do as it draws your attention away for a prolonged amount of time and hurts your form. Garmin's unwavering commitment to physical buttons and how you can customize what they do is what makes them the go…

As a non-Appleista, what strikes me most is their "silo" mentality. Most of the iPhone /iWatch using fitness types I know log their stuff inside the Apple cloud, and do not crosspost to Garmin Connect or Strava so the non-Appleistas don't see their stuff. Whereas the Garmin/Strava world is relatively open. I can for example take the original Forerunner (pictured in the article) and upload stuff from it to the Garmin…

An example of how Strava is geek-compatible (so far! it may get ensh*ttified in the future). I found some old GPS logs from 22 years ago, when I first got a handheld GPS and geeked out with it, logging a whole bunch of rides and hikes.

It took a bit of work to get those converted to a modern format (load into ancient tool, which is still maintained, and write out as GPX files... one at a time). But then these GPX files can be uploaded to Strava and there they are! Activities older than Strava itself, fully integrated.

Also I've more than once had a "whoopsie" - app left recording during the drive home, for example. Download activity from Strava, edit the GPX file, delete the activity and re-upload from the file.

And when you download your stuff from Strava, you get a database dump. That's both good and bad; e.g. users are just numbers and you'd need to use the web Strava to translate them to names, but all your photos and all your traces and all your stats come down in standard formats (jpeg, gpx and csv respectively) and nothing is dumbed down; everything is in the best possible format for re-import to something else.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#235
I just got my first Garmin Watch (Venu 3) in December for Xmas. So far I'm enjoying it. I'm happy to see the company knows how to survive because my last few smart watches didn't fare so well, not exactly from market changes, but from acquisitions.

I had the original Pebble and Pebble 2. Loved them. Then one day Pebble was just shut down because of an acquisition by Fibit[1]. There was a group of people that started Rebble[2] to restore web services and support the watch but I was not interested so I switched over to Fitbit.

I had the Fitbit Versa 2 and Versa 3 watches and for a while they were great. Then Google bought Fitbit[3]. The impending "Killed by Google" was always in the back of mind, especially since they already sold smart watches. But I have been on Pixel phones for a while now and I thought maybe Google buying them would lead to good things. At first not much changed, but eventually I started having issues with the watch (more info about that below) and I got fed up with it and now I have a Garmin Watch.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_(watch)#Closing_of_Pebb...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_(watch)#Rebble

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitbit#Google's_acquisition

The issues I was having with my Versa 3:

Daily I would notice I had missed a sms notification and realize that my watch was disconnected from my phone. I had to go in and manually reconnect it. I also had issues using the voice command feature. I used to be able to use my Google Assistant through the watch, but at some point it just said "check bluetooth connection", even after confirming that connection. So sometime last year I decided to see if a factory reset would work. I did that and did the whole setup process again which included upgrading to the latest firmware. This did not fix the issue and it came with the added bonus of completely disabling my sleep tracking. I think I was grandfathered in because sleep tracking became a premium service that I was getting for free but doing the reset lost that. So now I was out of sleep tracking, voice commands to any assistant, and a stable connection.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#236
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my perspective -- someone who wants the things a smart watch does -- I can't figure out what a Garmin is for. They don't really do the job of a regular smart watch and aren't designed for wearing all the time, so it becomes a secondary device you need to manage and charge separately, not to mention pay for. Meanwhile, an Apple Watch can do all of it. IME, the battery life of Garmin's isn't a game changer... if y…

If you just talk about notifications, the apple watch is better, in that you can reply without pulling out your phone, or even take the voice call, which you can't (at least afaik) on a Garmin. If you look at Apple watch activity tracking, though, Garmin is playing a different ballgame. Calorie counting on apple is off by 2-5x (compared to energy output measured on an erg, and running and biking are similarly _really…

Some Garmin devices have a speaker and microphone so you can take a voice call using it as a Bluetooth device linked to your phone.

You can also reply to text messages with a limited set of canned responses on Android phones only. This doesn't work on iPhones because Apple has intentionally blocked third-party smart watches from being allowed to use that API in a particularly monopolistic and consumer-hostile move.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#237
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ideal charging cycles are either daily or never. With some non-daily cycle, I need to add “does my watch need recharging?” to my cognitive load.

It would be cool if digital watches could borrow the idea of harvesting power from movement from the mechanical watch world. I wonder how close to that we are?

Garmins went another way - the "Solar" models use sun to prolong battery life.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#238
post #139

I have a soft spot in my heart for Garmin. I am one of the few people left that still use Garmin's car GPS. I currently use the latest model, the Drive Smart 66. It is my daily driver (lol?). I recently went on a cross country road trip and this thing worked perfectly even when I was in the middle of the desert or driving through a canyon. It was nice to not rely on cell phone service for navigation on this trip. Alt…

Fellow user of a physical Garmin car navigation GPS. The one I use is my dad's old Nuvi from about 2015.

In addition to several of the pros you listed, I'd add a few more:

- Stupid-simple interface. I was a Google Maps user for a while, and I was not a fan of various popups (from "Welcome to " to "Is this speed trap still here?"). I'm piloting a several-thousand-pound hunk of metal at highway speeds, do NOT interrupt me!

- Unchanging interface. I'd get used to the way Google Maps behaved, and then an update would change something and break muscle memory. Whereas my 2015 Garmin isn't getting updated with unnecessary animations and pointless button re-arranging. When updating maps, the firmware update is a separate download. Since it's not Internet-connected, I don't care if I'm running "outdated" software. As long as it still gives directions, that's all I want.

- It's not my phone. I don't want my text messages coming up across the top of the screen while I'm trying to read the next turn on my route. I don't want anything on the screen that's not directly related to navigation.

It's a great example of KISS in a hardware product. It does GPS navigation. It is literally incapable of distracting you with anything else. I consider that a killer feature.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#239

I'm in the market for a watch. Turned 41, my weight has slowly crept up despite working out 4-5 times a week - not too bad, like not obese. My cholesterol is bad partially due to genetics but mostly due to diet. I also have a mild sleep apnea, especially when my weight is high. I'm focusing on dropping weight this year and would love to start tracking sleep, recovery, apnea, and any heart issues before/as they happen…

I have an older relative who uses their Venu3 to take their own ECG and combine that with a Garmin Index BPM (~$150) to help monitor their heart function. The ECG is simple to use on the watch and the BPM syncs to Garmin Connect so that all that data is stored daily for their cardiac specialist to review when they go in for appointments. They had a diagnosis of A-Fib a while back that explained all their decrease in energy levels and since beginning treatment for it they have had no further issues. Now they have the ability to sit and take an ECG to transmit to their cardiologist if they start feeling bad. For them it provides peace of mind that their meds are working as designed. They regularly get in 5k - 10k steps daily which is pretty great for someone making a strong run at 90 y.o.

I don't think Garmin has a device that is able to track or identify sleep anea events but would not be surprised to see that functionality appear in the near future on some product.

I have an Instinct 2 Solar and it has been great for me. I told other relatives about it and they have picked their own models to suit their lifestyles.

I think that is Garmin's strength, the wide variety of fitness devices suited for almost any activity or personality.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#240

Slightly offtopic but my girlfriend's smartwatch is falling apart and can't stand it anymore. Her birthday is coming soon and was thinking about a Garmin smartwatch. She runs a lot, gym almost everyday. Loves tracking fitness data and workouts but she's petite. Anyone with good recs on what to check?

Try something like a Forerunner 265S. When you see an "S" suffix on model numbers that indicates it's a "small" size variant specifically designed for petite wearers.
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