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Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

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Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#231

Post by simiones »

the_sleaze_ wrote: post #107
simiones wrote: post #84

It's very strange to complain that cars run red lights, but somehow not stop signs. I expect that if the intersection were as empty as it was when he was filming, you'd easily find people driving at a similar speed regardless of the stop signs too.

I know it as the "California Roll" - to slow down but continue to cruise through stop signs.

In my own country, where stop signs are relatively rare anyway, this behavior is so common that it doesn't even have a name. I think it's much more unexpected here to see anyone truly stop at a stop sign on an empty street than it is to see them slow down and then continue on. And I would bet police would not bat an eye 99% of the time if they saw someone do it.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#232

Post by dfxm12 »

afhsrtjwrtj wrote: post #139
throwway120385 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the walk signal there is a brief moment in time when the drivers are doing nothing but waiting for you and are all stopped so you as a pedestrian can account for them in preparation just before you get your signal and make your move. Having almost been hit a few times by drivers making a right turn on red, I can tell you the drivers never wait even if you have the right of way. You'll be lucky if they even loo…

Why is right-on-red always cited as the biggest problem with turns? My anecdotal experience is that drivers turning on green are way more likely to hit me when I have a walk signal on the cross-street than drivers who turn right on red.

Drivers have to worry about the traffic which has the green light vs. just looking where they're going.

My anecdotal evidence is that everyone is looking out for themselves and people in bigger vehicles will always take advantage of that.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#233

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

DHPersonal wrote: post #48
jagged-chisel wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OT, but it fired me up a bit - people that enter the intersection on green or orange awaiting a break to turn left. And then don’t clear the intersection on red. Now they’re in everyone’s way. How do you get them to understand they’ve already “run the light” and just need to move?

I remember my father telling me that was how it was supposed to be done, as the yellow light for oncoming traffic would convince them to stop and give you the time to complete the left turn. It only worked when they weren't also running the yellow light! These days I prefer waiting to turn so that I'm not stuck out in the middle of the intersection when the traffic light changes.

I don't know where you live, but where live, you are allowed to complete the left turn even after the light turns red. Hopefully the red light will convince oncoming cars to stop even if the yellow did not. Cross traffic has to yield to you as you exit the intersection. I hope this gives you more confidence in making left turns safely!

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#234

Post by smaudet »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #161
throwway120385 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the walk signal there is a brief moment in time when the drivers are doing nothing but waiting for you and are all stopped so you as a pedestrian can account for them in preparation just before you get your signal and make your move. Having almost been hit a few times by drivers making a right turn on red, I can tell you the drivers never wait even if you have the right of way. You'll be lucky if they even loo…

> Having almost been hit a few times by drivers making a right turn on red, I can tell you the drivers never wait even if you have the right of way. You'll be lucky if they even look for you. Right on red should not really be allowed. It's a real hazard.

The real issue are the road rage drivers who can't wait a minute and start honking behind you.

We all get it, we are all late now and then, but unless you are literally trying to catch a plane or a boat, in all likelihood you can sit your candy ass down and wait a minute.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#235

Post by dylan604 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #25

As a pedestrian I will take a busy light controlled intersection with a pedestrian scramble type walk signal over a busy 4-way stop where every single time. With the 4-way stop there is never a time in the cycle when all traffic is stopped. The drivers who are present are continuously paying attention to what other drivers are doing which robs them of situational awareness to note pedestrians. You can try and time it…

> With the walk signal there is a brief moment in time when the drivers are doing nothing but waiting for you

In my area, there are plenty of stop lights with pedestrian signals where both are active at the same time. This allows the traffic to flow if there are no pedestrians on the assumption the drivers will recognize the pedestrians have right of way. To me, this is bat shit crazy level of assumptions. Either protect the pedestrians, or you might as well remove the pedestrian signal.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#236

Post by baq »

HPsquared wrote: post #130
baq wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

should've been a roundabout with 0 stops

Roundabouts aren't great for pedestrians. You need to trust the drivers' signals.

Where I'm from it's exactly the opposite - straight road means you can't trust drivers to slow down, but any obstacle like a big mound with a road in a circle around it makes them pay attention

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#237

Post by xiphias2 »

horsawlarway wrote: post #219
nirvdrum wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except the article doesn’t claim what the drivers are doing is illegal. The article states “… and I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span.” I suppose “ripping through” can be left up to interpretation. However, in the video the author says “that person just ran a stop… a red light right in the middle of me filming.” Then the other he says: “I bet this guy runs the light. Yup, see, this…

I don't know if California has a different law, but at least in my state it is very much illegal to accelerate into a yellow light. Enforcement is basically non-existent, but it's absolutely "running the light" and "breaking the law" to accelerate into yellow lights.

I don't know USA, but in other parts of the world yellow and red are different colors.

Just because 2 things are illegal they aren't the same, and it takes away all seriousness from the article for me.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#238

Post by cogman10 »

Could someone explain why we always put pedestrian crossings at intersections?

I've always felt like that is the most unsafe place for a crossing. In my city, there are a few pedestrian crossings with lights recessed from intersections. The lights turn on only when someone bumps the crossing button (which isn't super common) and only 2 ways of traffic need to stop/watch out.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#239

Post by Tarq0n »

ajmurmann wrote: post #9
bedobi wrote: post #2

This is a solved problem and it's astonishing the world hasn't just adopted the Dutch traffic engineering standards outright. It's FASTER for cars and safer for people.

The lack of adoption of best practices from other countries is generally baffling to me. When I first visited China grim Europe and saw traffic lights with countdowns (like in the US) I thought we did immediately adopt this in Europe. Cultural inertia and lack of looking outwards is really frustrating.

Research on countdown traffic lights is inconclusive with regards to their safety [0]. They can not realistically be described as best practice.

[0] https://www.maxapress.com/data/article/dts/preview/pdf/DTS-2...

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#240

Post by andrepd »

Salgat wrote: post #83
bedobi wrote: post #2

This is a solved problem and it's astonishing the world hasn't just adopted the Dutch traffic engineering standards outright. It's FASTER for cars and safer for people.

To clarify, aren't these standards mostly relevant where heavy bicycle traffic exists? Do they still apply in areas with little to no bicycle traffic? I'm assuming you're mostly referring to this famous manual: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CROW_Design_Manual_for_Bicycle...

There is no bicycle traffic because there are no bicycle roads. It's incorrect to claim that we shouldn't build bicycle roads because there's no bicycle traffic :)
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