Who killed the rave? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who killed the rave?

#231

Post by Scoundreller » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:06 PM UTC

KeplerBoy wrote: post #170

jamestimmins wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shocking how often the answer to "How come X changed?" is either the creation of the internet or the cost of real estate. Surprisingly often, it's both.

It's interesting how the creation of the internet still hasn't caused real estate prices to plummet. Even two years of covid couldn't do it.

> Even two years of covid couldn't do it.

My jurisdiction gave free money to everyone that lost their job/income, with far more liberal eligibility criteria than unemployment insurance had, at fixed amounts conveniently we’ll above the monthly rental costs for most.

Kept the rental market propped up.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#232

Post by renewiltord » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:06 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #211

smt88 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because most people live in cities because they prefer it, not because their office was there.

I think it is almost entirely job driven. Given the choice of equal pay, most people would pick a cheap suburban 2000sqft house with a garden for 10% the price of a SF condo. Of course, variation exists

If this were true, we wouldn’t need to enforce the single family home through zoning.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#233

Post by ghaff » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:07 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #211

smt88 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because most people live in cities because they prefer it, not because their office was there.

I think it is almost entirely job driven. Given the choice of equal pay, most people would pick a cheap suburban 2000sqft house with a garden for 10% the price of a SF condo. Of course, variation exists

I strongly suspect that had remote work remained a bigger trend post-COVID peak, you'd be seeing a lot less core urban residential demand (and all that would imply). After all, a lot of large US cities were seeing urban flight of both residents and companies in the late 1990s. When I graduated from grad school--other than NYC finance--pretty much none of my classmates went to live in a city or worked there. Urban living/working is hardly an immutable law of nature.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#234

Post by gonzobonzo » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:08 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #148

Vampiero wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no wonder you don't like raves. You might be the first person who went to one without taking drugs. Same for clubs tbh. That kind of music is made by people on particular drugs and it's meant to be listened to by people on those same drugs. And dancing is just a way to shake off the stimulants.

Howdy! I've been huge into electronic music since I was 12 (currently 38). Literally fell in love with the music for the sake of the music. Started going out at 18, didn't try drugs until my mid-20's. Enjoy drugs, sometimes I'll take them, but most of the time I'm either sober or just a bit stoned. But even the weed isn't a requirement for me. I can be out until 5AM, loving the whole experience, because the music is…

For what it's worth -

I enjoy electronic music. I enjoy dancing. I absolutely hated the club scene every time I went. All the ones I went to were in dark and fairly disgusting venues, where people spent hours moving back and forth between sitting around getting drunk with music blasting so loud you couldn't have a conversation, and awkwardly moving around a crowded dance for floor. As the other person said, it was hard to see how anyone was actually enjoying the situation, particularly considering everyone was paying a good deal of money and screwing up their sleep schedule for it.

I can get enjoying electronic music and dancing to it, but the club scene always seemed immensely unappealing.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#235

Post by vineyardmike » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #211

smt88 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because most people live in cities because they prefer it, not because their office was there.

I think it is almost entirely job driven. Given the choice of equal pay, most people would pick a cheap suburban 2000sqft house with a garden for 10% the price of a SF condo. Of course, variation exists

I think you have it backwards, and I think “most” is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Given equal cost of a home, most people would prefer to live in a city. Especially if you look globally, cities are absolutely trampling suburbs with demand. Yes, people in the suburbs often chose that preferentially, but there are less people in suburbs.

In America, suburbs are disproportionately popular. I’m guessing that has more to do with civics than preferences. Most of suburbanites I know in America either live near their suburban job, or express some fear/distrust of various aspects of city life - and it’s mostly related to cars and transportation.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#236

Post by ghaff » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #213

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the opposite is true. It's easier to find a job in a city other than your own with the internet, and big cities pay the most

That ignores that plenty of people are in cities because of the amenities that concentration allows. If you want niche/specialty restaurants, grocery options, entertainment, medical care etc. you will have to be in a large metropolitan area

You can be in a broader metropolitan area without actually living in a city.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#237

Post by quotz » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

mtalantikite wrote: post #176

berlinbrowndev wrote: post #94

I love electronic music. Been listening to it for 30 years. Mostly drumbass, dubstep, some house. Groups like subfocus. I used to listen to tiesto, bt, etc. One, I hated the term "raving". I was thought raves were finding an abandoned house, playing music and drugs. I just like the music and don't need the dance clubs or the drugs. But with the said, I think the "club" scene has dropped off. Expensive drinks. Expensi…

This exactly. I've been to "raves", they were just giant parties with $3 beers in an abandoned or semi-legal building somewhere in Brooklyn. I was surprised when I started hearing people call giant corporate venues with dancing "raves". I went out to one of those giant clubs in Brooklyn not too long ago to see a friend DJ (Brooklyn Mirage). I was on guestlist, but the cover would have been $50. I bought a round of dr…

Brooklyn Mirage is hardly a rave place, just a club. Went last year it was pretty terrible. The sound was so quiet I could talk with my gf without yelling. There was also a food vendor inside the venue for whatever weird reason. Paid $300 for tickets and 2 drinks. I heard basement is a good place but never been. Europe's techno parties and raves are still going strong and no food vendors inside ofcourse we are not that lame.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#238

Post by marssaxman » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #211

smt88 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because most people live in cities because they prefer it, not because their office was there.

I think it is almost entirely job driven. Given the choice of equal pay, most people would pick a cheap suburban 2000sqft house with a garden for 10% the price of a SF condo. Of course, variation exists

Cities are not just where the jobs are, cities are where everything is. You'd likely have to offer double my salary before I'd consider exchanging my life here in the heart of it all for the lonely, empty, car-dependent barrenness of the suburbs.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#239

Post by s1artibartfast » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #213

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the opposite is true. It's easier to find a job in a city other than your own with the internet, and big cities pay the most

That ignores that plenty of people are in cities because of the amenities that concentration allows. If you want niche/specialty restaurants, grocery options, entertainment, medical care etc. you will have to be in a large metropolitan area

That means you have to be in driving distance of a metro with several hundred thousand.

That is very different than a Tier 1 city.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#240

Post by brotchie » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 5:12 PM UTC

saberience wrote: post #227

I find it really hard to believe this and am questioning the data. I raved back in the early 2000s and I still rave now and the popularity is absolutely booming in a way I've never seen before and in more parts of the world. 15 years ago there was zero electronic music events in Dubai, now there are huge electronic music festivals there and it's clear a ton of people at those events are taking "something" that isn't…

I feel like they're conflating "rave" with "clubbing."

Friday, Saturday club attendance has been dropping across the world, and many electronic music focused club venues have shut down (at least in Australia and the UK).

My word association of "rave" is "festival" though. Festivals feel like they're still booming, or at least not in dramatic decline.

From a small personal sampling: Coachella, Portola, Outside Lands, Proper, Lightning in a Bottle, festivals are still going strong. For some (Coachella, Lightning in a Bottle) attendance felt like it dropped 2023 -> 2024, but perhaps 10-20%, and this is likely economically correlated (inflation, etc). Late 2024- festivals (Portola, Proper) were packed.