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FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

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Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#231

Post by jfengel »

breadwinner wrote: post #140

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that? Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait…

There is a move afoot to eliminate all regulations unless they've been specifically passed by Congress. Which is basically incapable of passing anything.

Ironically, that inherent dysfunction is the main reason to suspect that won't happen. But politically, every regulation as automatically partisan, even when it has overwhelming support.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#232

Post by darknavi »

ssl-3 wrote: post #196
Symbiote wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the EU, the site guesses the location based on the IP, writes "Delivery to Denmark [Change?]" and shows prices with Danish VAT. If I'm signed in to the shop from making a previous purchase, they will use the location of the previous purchase.

If Denmark has just one sales tax rate or VAT, then maybe that can work OK for Denmark. But this isn't about Denmark -- it is about the US. In the US, there are over 13,000 different sales tax jurisdictions, and each one of them may have a different tax rate. I wish the best to anyone who would ever be tasked with sorting that out with any semblance of accuracy using IP geolocation databases.

Take a good guess and let the user type in their zip code?

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#233

Post by runako »

joshuaissac wrote: post #208
runako wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local retailers would oppose this in very strong terms as a thumb on the scale in favor of online retailers. Online retailers would presumably still be able to show pricing before knowing a shipping address, so their pricing would be pre-tax. That would make the apparent price differential even greater, and on every item. I think this would make the marketplace less clear for consumers.

Online retailers could be required to use the best available estimate of the user's location to calculate the tax, like they do for ads. So if they are logged in with an address on file, it could be that. If not, they could use geolocation, with a note that the tax is estimated. And let the user input a location in a box to show the exact tax.

> they could use geolocation, with a note that the tax is estimated

So we'd go from the current regime where the displayed price is wrong to another regime where the displayed price is wrong? Allegedly, something like 40%+ of Americans use VPNs. They would pretty much always see the wrong price.

In practice, the ramification of this would be that your local indie retailers (where we are much less likely to be persistently logged in) would be forced to incorrectly show higher prices to a set of people, while the giant retailers who already have your billing info can show you 100% accurate pricing all the time, regardless of VPN.

I don't see any clear wins in that scenario.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#234

Post by bluGill »

cyberax wrote: post #207
bluGill wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they cannot. Taxes are not uniform. Walmart probably won't deal with this, but in many states business (read farmers) do not pay sales tax on some items (read likely to be used on a farm) and so stores that want to sell to business will have the ability to verify you are a business to give that discount. It is worse for online where until you log in they have no clue what taxes will apply. If you are buying a gift…

If you sell a widget in a store, you MUST be able to compute the sales tax. Otherwise, you can't sell it. And if you can do that, then you might as well print it on the price tag (along with pre-tax price if you want). No buts. Ditto for online, after you get the customer's ZIP code.

You can't print the price on a price tag because different customer pay different prices.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#235

Post by bluGill »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #228
bluGill wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because details matter and are hard. If you don't get the details just right a court will strike the whole thing down for good reason.

It’d be a shame to ask hard work of our government that spends a trillion of our dollars every year

They did do the hard work - it took many years.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#236

Post by kstrauser »

emidln wrote: post #203
qeternity wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes bc in the EU there is national VAT. In the US there is state and local sales tax. You can and will pay different sales tax between cities in a given state.

You can do this, albeit slightly less reliably, in the US as well. The geolocation isn't perfect, but you could easily put "With delivery to XXXXX [edit]" where XXXXX is a zip code you geolocate off an ip (or lookup in a user profile for a recurring user).

The zip code is not fine grained enough to identify tax jurisdictions in many places in the US.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#237

Post by ssl-3 »

_zoltan_ wrote: post #227
ssl-3 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Denmark has just one sales tax rate or VAT, then maybe that can work OK for Denmark. But this isn't about Denmark -- it is about the US. In the US, there are over 13,000 different sales tax jurisdictions, and each one of them may have a different tax rate. I wish the best to anyone who would ever be tasked with sorting that out with any semblance of accuracy using IP geolocation databases.

Maybe not have 13000 different sales tax jurisdictions? Just a thought...

It doesn't really work like that, though. Sales tax is up to the states to sort out how to deal with on their own, and there's 50 of them.

Nationally (or as some may prefer, "federallly"), the sales tax rate is already zero -- and has always been zero.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#238

Post by kstrauser »

alistairSH wrote: post #156
briandear wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I hate when website use IP for anything, especially language selection. I travel all the time as well as use VPNs for work, and the idea that my IP represents anything other than what network I’m connecting from is just lazy UX.

Yes let’s keep a shitty UX for most users because of a few abnormal users. Be honest, frequent travel and shopping over VPN is an edge case here. The vast majority of users are shopping and buying from home with a VPN. Or better yet, give municipalities an incentive to stop layering a kinds of taxes. Just have a VAT and be done with it.

> The vast majority of users are shopping and buying from home with a VPN.

I bet that's wrong, and that a huge chunk of shopping is from cell phones that usually have an effectively random IP when they're not at their home location.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#239

Post by websap »

kylecazar wrote: post #98
BurningFrog wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a free market fan, Khan seems to have been pretty terrible. But this looks genuinely good! It's basically banning fraud. ---[EDIT], since everyone is asking for reasons here are two libertarian/conservative critiques: • https://reason.com/2024/11/07/good-riddance-lina-khan/ • https://archive.ph/IjNmZ

Personally, I think she's for the free market. She is progressive, which is controversial, but I don't really see why non-billionaires run to the defense of big tech when their monopolistic status is scrutinized. I totally understand why billionaires do, on the other hand. Worth watching Reid Hoffman embarrass himself on Jake Tapper on the subject of Khan recently for those interested

Because people have been conditioned through the media to believe that once the Billionares get taxed, you're next.

We're at an unprecedented levels of wealth inequality in America. Billion dollar businesses built on tax payer money, should contribute to the system. Instead we've designed a system where these companies would rather pay millions of dollars in campaign contributions and to lobbyists.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#240

Post by II2II »

crazygringo wrote: post #153
sofixa wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's obviously not the norm in countries that have sales taxes which vary by locality Why not? If each store or restaurant or theatre or whatever in each locality know what price to bill you, they know the applicable price to show you upfront. > Whether a country is "developed" or not has nothing to do with it. The vast majority of countries in Africa have a VAT, while the world's richest country has a sales tax. T…

> Why not? If each store in each locality know what price to bill you, they know the applicable price to show you upfront. Because it makes state-level or national-level advertising of prices impossible. Or even local-level in many cases. > The relevance of developed or not is how much of the economy is informal or includes a part of negotiation. No it doesn't, where are you getting that? Feel free to browse: https:/…

> Because it makes state-level or national-level advertising of prices impossible. Or even local-level in many cases.

In large countries like Canada, and I would imagine the US, you probably don't want to advertise prices nationally. The cost of goods to will be different for a business in Vancouver and Southern Ontario compared to the Atlantic Provinces. Never mind small towns in remote communities connected to the road network, such as Northern Ontario. Especially never mind small towns in remote communities that are not connected to the road network.

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