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A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

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Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#231

Post by snakeyjake »

yohannparis wrote: post #226
snakeyjake wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans will never walk. Where I live, today's high temperature is lower than the low temperature in Amsterdam. In August the average low temperature is higher than the average high temperature in Amsterdam. Nobody, not even the hardiest Dutchman is going to walk or cycle when it is 27C at midnight in the summer and 0C at the warmest in the winter with four months of "Amsterdam weather" sprinkled between summer and…

I biked year round for 4 years in Washington DC. Biking by 40ºC and in the snow in the winter wasn't difficult.

Congratulations for being in the microscopically-miniscule statistically-irrelevant minority of people.

Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#232

Post by com »

vanderZwan wrote: post #124
isoprophlex wrote: post #96

It's the urban planning, but I'll point out that it's the requirements and responibilities put on the drivers as well. Driving lessons for me consisted for 80% of learning how to ALWAYS ALWAYS track all the cyclists and pedestrians in urban environments, how to approach an intersection and have complete visual on whatever the weaker parties might be doing. A very defensive "assume weird shit can happen any time, and…

It also helps that "the car driver is to blame until proven otherwise" is the actual law in the Netherlands, which is motivated precisely because of that power dynamic. Essentially, the responsibility defaults the more dangerous vehicle. (for some reason this always is controversial with a lot of Americans whenever it is brought up in on-line discussions)

Except for trams. They never seem to get the blame, however with their braking distance, I suppose it makes sense.

Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#233

Post by partdavid »

arethuza wrote: post #183
Earw0rm wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accurate. This romanticist nonsense also means that adequately lit and drained paths - for walking, cycling and wheeling at all hours - inevitably attract rural NIMBY ire. "Preserve the character of our rural village with its 5000 SUVs and its manor house built by plantation owners". Presumably someone's done a Tolkien fanfic where it turns out the hobbits have a bunch of plantations in Numenor or somewhere populated…

I did always wonder about the general standard of living in the Shire - always seemed suspiciously high to me.

Because it's attempting mythisimilitude, not verisimilitude.

Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#234

Post by ben-schaaf »

m4rc3lv wrote: post #151

The problem in the Netherlands nowadays is not the interaction between motorists verus cyclists, but ebikes versus normal bikes. Lot of accidents happen on the bycicle roads

When I rode an ebike in the Netherlands I still frequently got overtaken by people on omafietsen. It was the mopeds using the bike paths that were causing problems.

Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#235

Post by snakeyjake »

bb86754 wrote: post #201
snakeyjake wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans will never walk. Where I live, today's high temperature is lower than the low temperature in Amsterdam. In August the average low temperature is higher than the average high temperature in Amsterdam. Nobody, not even the hardiest Dutchman is going to walk or cycle when it is 27C at midnight in the summer and 0C at the warmest in the winter with four months of "Amsterdam weather" sprinkled between summer and…

DC might not be the best comparison here as far as American cities go. I - and most people I know - walk around the city year round and I live on the top of a pretty steep hill.

DC isn't even close to the top of the list of cities where commuters walk.

https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT5Y2019.B08006?t=Commuting...

In the summer most people do not want to show up to work reeking like the Anacostia. I get it. In the evenings you walk from your apartment to Madam's Organ to pay $20 for a beer.

Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#236

Post by vanderZwan »

osener wrote: post #217
eru wrote: post #70

I love the Netherlands, and not just for their livable street design, I just wish they food weren't so bland. They make even German cuisine look adventurous in comparison.

I really wish this tired cliché would disappear, and I say this as someone who has emigrated from a country renowned for its cuisine. Dutch supermarkets offer an impressive variety of products, and there’s no shortage of specialty or “ethnic” shops where you can find virtually any ingredient for any type of cooking. Major cities are brimming with restaurants serving world cuisines, and people with diverse dietary res…

Food in general in the Netherlands is fine. If we're talking about Dutch cuisine, even us Dutch people complain about how terrible it is.

Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#237

Post by pkulak »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #76

This design highlights a major failing with UK cycle "infrastructure". Here, we often have shared use pavements with sometimes a bit of white paint to designate the pedestrian and cycle lanes, but they cede priority at every single side road. The problem is that it makes cycling using them really awkward as it takes significant energy for cyclists to slow down and then speed up multiple times. The irony is that if yo…

It is so adorable when Europeans complain about bike/transit infrastructure. Here’s my bike lane. It’s that white strip of paint on the right there:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/HHcHi3u5xbAM4jxY7?g_st=ic

Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#238

Post by asveikau »

pkulak wrote: post #237
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #76

This design highlights a major failing with UK cycle "infrastructure". Here, we often have shared use pavements with sometimes a bit of white paint to designate the pedestrian and cycle lanes, but they cede priority at every single side road. The problem is that it makes cycling using them really awkward as it takes significant energy for cyclists to slow down and then speed up multiple times. The irony is that if yo…

It is so adorable when Europeans complain about bike/transit infrastructure. Here’s my bike lane. It’s that white strip of paint on the right there: https://maps.app.goo.gl/HHcHi3u5xbAM4jxY7?g_st=ic

And yet when we have "bike lanes" like this, people complain that it's too much, too intrusive, ruins local business, or should be a parking spot or lane for deliveries.

Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#239

Post by renewiltord »

Earw0rm wrote: post #113
ben_w wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprising, sure. My memories of living in the UK is that there's a weird disconnect where "everyone walks" so walkers are treated as in-group and supported in their hobbies of walking, while "only lycra-clad fitness freaks cycle" so they're an out-group and demonised. This also extends to "how dare cyclists not need to pay road tax" when pedestrians also don't and also have essentially the same requirements for road…

Accurate. This romanticist nonsense also means that adequately lit and drained paths - for walking, cycling and wheeling at all hours - inevitably attract rural NIMBY ire. "Preserve the character of our rural village with its 5000 SUVs and its manor house built by plantation owners". Presumably someone's done a Tolkien fanfic where it turns out the hobbits have a bunch of plantations in Numenor or somewhere populated…

That’s amusing. Not anywhere near the same but The Last Ringbearer has Mordor as an industrializing society unfairly maligned.

Re: A common urban intersection in the Netherlands (2018)

#240

Post by Citizen_Lame »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #121
rsynnott wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Ireland, Dublin City Council has mostly gone with lanes which are either on the side of the road (with or without bollards), or entirely separate, whereas South Dublin County Council prefers shared use pavements. The two local authorities are contiguous, so it's all a bit jarring when you go between them. Separately, a national project, Busconnects, is putting in its own bike lanes. Some of these are... interestin…

It's astounding that we can't seem to just copy successful ideas from other countries and then ensure that all the councils etc. adhere to the standards. Of course, it doesn't help that the UK seems to keep producing highly aggressive drivers that want to punish cyclists that dare to use the public roads.

Which in turn means only most aggressive cyclists stay on the road. In London more than half cyclists jump the red light.
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