If it causes cellular damage, it might be a big problem. "Some studies indicate that only about 1% of heart cells are renewed each year in younger people, dropping to about 0.5% by age 75. This means that a significant portion of heart cells remain from childhood into old age."
Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
231–240 of 461 posts
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
So why not just stay on the drugs?
Most kill you. If I didn't misread articles on ozempic, they can cause digestive problems where food rots in your stomach. Bad depression was another side effect which blows my mind since you'd think looking better would make you feel great. And these were the minor things.
> Bad depression was another side effect
What? Ozempic has been noted for its mild _anti_ depression activity.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does ability to lift weight also decrease in about a week? I was recently out of town for over two weeks and came back with the ability to lift roughly the same amount I was able to prior to leaving. My DEXA scans seem roughly correlated with the amount of weight I can do in my regular sets, which has increased about 50-70% depending on which muscle group you are talking about. This is with heavy resistance training…
A good portion of the strength related to any specific lift is CNS adaptation up until a certain point (and most new lifters won't hit that threshold for quite some time), so strength on a lift you've been doing regularly isn't necessarily a good indicator. Building muscle will of course increase your strength too, but I've doubled my squat since getting back into lifting while certainly not doubling the muscle mass…
Fair enough. I didn’t mean a 1:1 correlation in 50% on a Dexa means 50% more strength, just would expect my lifting ability to go down if I lost muscle mass (or if it were water weight to begin with). Neither have decreased much if at all during breaks, so I’m fairly convinced it’s “real” so to speak.
Looking through my weightlifting app my best tracked exercise (leg press) increased about 250% from start with a 60% (roughly, speaking from memory) increase in lean muscle mass as measured by a DEXA scan. If I remember when back from dog walks tonight I’ll update that with a real number off the actual data.
I was a total newb at lifting though, so those early gains came quite quickly.
I am curious as this is a concern I have for long term health.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most kill you. If I didn't misread articles on ozempic, they can cause digestive problems where food rots in your stomach. Bad depression was another side effect which blows my mind since you'd think looking better would make you feel great. And these were the minor things.
I don't think you realize the amount of people have taken Ozempic or similar drug. I'm lucky enough that I haven't had issues with body weight, but if I believe the stats (and my observations in real world confirm it), about 15% of adults are on it. If it was "killing people", we would be seeing it literally everywhere. We're not talking about a small scale 50K+ observation... we're talking about literal millions.
This says 6% are currently on a GLP-1 drug and 15% have ever taken one in their life:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/10/health/ozempic-glp-1-surv...
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#235There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.
Studies show strength training while losing weight can retain almost 100% of muscle.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#236The problem with appetite suppression drugs is that they simply make you not feel hungry, but do nothing to fix your lack of discipline and self-control, I'm sure most people who lose weight on these drugs, and then come off, will just go back to their bad habits.
If you find it hard to control your eating when you always feel hungry, taking a drug to reduce your feelings of hunger is self-control. It's exactly looking at your body as a system and controlling it.
Maybe you can titrate off the drug and in a perfect world, the hunger signal doesn't come back on all the time; that'd be great. Maybe, while on the drug, you've developed eating habits that you can continue while off the drug, even though you feel hungry all the time, again. Maybe, it's just too hard to ignore the hunger signal, and you need the drug for a lifetime.
That's not to say these drugs are necessarily wonderful. Previous generations of weight loss drugs came with nasty side effects that weren't immediately apparent. Fen-Phen was a wonder drug until it ruined people's heart valves. Stimulant appetite supressants have issues because they're stimulants. Cigarrettes have appetite supressant properties (not surprising, nicotine is a stimulant), but they're cigarettes.
Personally, I don't have an overactive hunger signal; so when I eat poorly and gain weight, it's on me. But other people I know have a totally different experience with hunger. If your body is telling you all the time that you need to eat, it's hard to say no. Just like it's hard not to scratch when your skin is itchy. I can resist itchyness sometimes, but when it's constant, I'm going to scratch.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Outside of cardiac muscle, which is a bit worrisome, 40% of weight loss being from muscles is incredibly typical for any diet that sheds pounds. There are very complex dietary regimes that can be followed to minimize this, but most studies have shown that they don't save any time compared to losing weight and then working to get the muscle back afterwards. > Dyck’s study comes on the heels of a commentary published i…
> There are very complex dietary regimes that can be followed to minimize this The dietary regime isn't complex -- just consume a LOT of protein. Something like 1-2 g/kg/d. And non-dietary: do strength training.
This works until it doesn't.
Professional body builders do bulk/cut/bulk/cut because after awhile you can't lose weight and put on muscle at the same time, especially if you want to get to the point of being shredded.
(well you can do it, but there is no benefit over bulking and cutting)
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#238Keyword: "in mice"
Second gotcha: how much of the decrease is just attributed to the lower mass of the subject after the weigh-loss treatment
Though it's one good reminder that "catabolism" and "anabolism" are less selective than we wished to
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes sometimes the loudest voice definitely rises to the top and it’s annoying, but I also think it’s a condition that too many new members don’t know how to use the upvote button. I also think it’s a symptom that HN does not allow enough people to use the down vote button. you could be a commenting member for years and not be able to downvote or you could be somebody who posts a few click bate links you copied from a…
From my observation it is hard to get to 501 karma points by the karma gained from submissions than through comments. So for comments every 1 upvote equals 1 karma. But for submissions, god only know what is the conversion rate /s. I think there are many factor. But I think this mechanism is to limit people creating accounts and mass down voting anything they don't like. So it is trying to solve another problem. Howe…
I might be biased in my perspective because I tend to focus on links that make it to the front page. It's true that many links end up languishing in obscurity.
I just think the level of effort involved is different. For instance, the person who posted the link to the study we're now discussing earned 199 points with far less effort than you put into replying to my comment. Many of the links posted are copied from Reddit, Twitter, Slashdot, etc.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
From my observation it is hard to get to 501 karma points by the karma gained from submissions than through comments. So for comments every 1 upvote equals 1 karma. But for submissions, god only know what is the conversion rate /s. I think there are many factor. But I think this mechanism is to limit people creating accounts and mass down voting anything they don't like. So it is trying to solve another problem. Howe…
I might be biased in my perspective because I tend to focus on links that make it to the front page. It's true that many links end up languishing in obscurity. I just think the level of effort involved is different. For instance, the person who posted the link to the study we're now discussing earned 199 points with far less effort than you put into replying to my comment. Many of the links posted are copied from Red…
I am sure what he actually got is much less than that number. If you got 200 up votes to a comment then that's 200 karma, but with submissions it is different, maybe dang can shed some light on that. Also what gets traction depends on a lot of things that you will find that most people will have the vast majority of their submissions have little to zero activity. So it is not that easy, some will manage to do it but the purpose is to limit that to something manageable. Then I think dang is managing both up voting ans down voting rings. With up voting being harder (everyone can do that)