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Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#231

Post by scotty79 »

thrw42A8N wrote: post #59
scotty79 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strength of markets is that they adjust to environment. Taxation is a part of the environment. Taxation would be just priced in. Why would it be risky to pay some percentage more on what you spend but not pay income tax at all?

Markets will adjust, sure. It will be priced in, but that's the problem. They will become less efficient, quality will be worse, everything will be slower, more risk averse, and thus more expensive to the customer - that is necessary to survive in this new environment. That also means that people's income gets lower and grows slower. It'd be risky because I have no idea if I'm actually going to make money or not. Eur…

Two factors are responsible for the bulk ens*ttification of the markets: any barriers to competition and information asymmetry between purchaser and seller. Taxation is not a factor unless it's done with too much micromanagement that incentivises doing weird things to your product/service to avoid higher tax.

VAT is already a purchase tax, just collected from the end consumer. You could just raise VAT and do away with income tax. But since the burden is on the end consumer only (not along the chain, because of 100% deductions) it would have to be raised very high. And VAT is with us long enough that many ways to exploit its edge cases were discovered. General purchase tax collected at all steps of production chain could spread the tax burden away from final consumer to the people who exploit them (aka businessmen) thus fulfilling the role that income tax currently fulfills. It would also have way less edge cases and could replace things like import tariffs and social security fees, excise taxes and many more.

> It'd be risky because I have no idea if I'm actually going to make money or not.

That's the inherent risk of business. You have to decide if it's worth it regardless of whether a server costs you $x or $x+10% purchase tax.

> European states set very draconian rules like 1% daily interest on unpaid taxes - no way I'm taking this shit on.

You would never have unpaid taxes because they'd be automatically collected by the bank at the moment of purchase. If you don't have money to pay for purchase tax you don't have money to make a purchase.

> Just do the same thing but with VAT...

We could do some of that if we reduced VAT deductions from 100%. But it would be worse because VAT is very limited and thus has a lot of edge cases where it comes in contact in systems outside it's domain. Those can be used to get away from paying by doing superfluous operations.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#232

Post by andylynch »

barrenko wrote: post #191
sensanaty wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How the hell can any of what you just described be legal? Do you have any articles about this? Because this is insane if true.

It kinda sounds like you can't raid Uber / Netflix without hackers, Ghost in the shell type raid. Which is probably the future of raids.

This is one of the prime threat models for things like encryption of data at rest on servers

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#233

Post by scotty79 »

Aunche wrote: post #111
scotty79 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purchase tax would work like reverse VAT. Companies could be awarded tax credits for their sales (not 100% though) and pay tax on their purchases. This would be harder to evade and additionally incentivise companies to do more with less which might be good for environmental transition.

...or you can just use a VAT, which are also paid at purchase. Tech companies have high margins and low expenses, so if the point is to tax tech companies, taxing purchases and giving a credit to sales is literally the exact opposite of what you want to do.

VAT with 100% deduction places entire tax burden on the end consumer. Income tax aims to extract additional tax from entities that extract money from consumers for investors.

VAT could do a lot of the same things that I'm proposing (if the deductions weren't 100%) but is limited in scope. And because of that it has a lot of interfaces to other domains like real estate, import, labor, financial intruments. Interfaces that can be exploited to avoid paying taxes.

General purchase tax could replace all taxes and fees transfered from the markets to governments (and effectively goverment managed buckets like social security or public healthcare).

Taxes have this strong moral objection that they are punishment for creating value. Purchase tax could help with that by ostensibly being punishment for using up value not for creating value. It might also compose well with transition to stable state economy that will have to replace old economy based on unbounded growth.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#234

Post by tonygiorgio »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #158
telotortium wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think any of these kill switches involved deleting data, just temporarily removing access of systems in the affected office.

Not a lawyer, but let’s say the cops were searching my house. If I threw the keys to my unbreakable safe out the window, such that they could never be found, I doubt a judge would care for the distinction. That the evidence exists but cannot be accessed is still going to find you in contempt.

If it were keys to a safe that existed outside of the warrant requirements (in another country in fact), then it would likely not be illegal. The regulators would unlikely be able to legally access that safe anyways without extra due process, so it’s mostly about protecting against unwarranted access.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#235

Post by scotty79 »

mort96 wrote: post #200
scotty79 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want euroscepticism? Because that's how you get euroscepticism.

I don't understand the problem honestly. I'd understand it if Poland stepped in and didn't let the company be bought out, but this just seems like bog standard normal globalized free market stuff? It would be extremely weird for France to step in and prevent a French company from buying a Polish company due to fears of stoking Euroscepticism among the polish population wouldn't it? And I don't even know what this has…

I also don't expect nothing other from thief then continuing to steal.

I also expect thieves to be protective of their own assets.

I'm just saying they are still thieves and any outrage in their name is misplaced.

Screw the French when they are robbed for the benefit of other countries, because they steal from other countries using their public companies as well.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#236

Post by stevekemp »

telotortium wrote: post #207
eastbound wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By creating a law for seizing the IT system of a company. “Provide everything”, and if we later find that any other document existed back at that time, then it’s contempt of court.

In the US such a law would likely be declared unconstitutional by the fifth amendment due to being overly broad: “”” United States v. Bridges, 344 F.3d 1010 (9th Cir. 2003) There was probable cause to search the defendant’s office based on the information in the application that documented his efforts to provide illegal tax advice to various clients, including undercover agents. The search warrant in this case, howev…

What about if you're within 100 miles of a border?

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#237

Post by onlypassingthru »

jjallen wrote: post #178
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a lawyer, but let’s say the cops were searching my house. If I threw the keys to my unbreakable safe out the window, such that they could never be found, I doubt a judge would care for the distinction. That the evidence exists but cannot be accessed is still going to find you in contempt.

This is like not giving them the password to your phone which I thought was protected at least in the US. They’re both literally keys.

Your password is sort of protected. A judge can hold you in prison for contempt for refusing to provide a password but there is an 18 month jail limit, at least in federal court.[0]

[0]https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/man-who-refused-...

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#238

Post by betaby »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #210
isodev wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the type of business. In the EU, VAT registered companies are usually mandated to have a physical location and local representative within the country of operation. So you can be remote all you want, as long as your company and fiscal representative can be reached at a physical location.

Yes, but you can hire anyone as an administrator and promise them a whole of money if they end up having issues with the law. I would hire homeless people to “run” the company.

In Canada hire indigenous people as owner to save on taxes / get preferential treatment. See ArriveCAN (non-)scandal.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#239

Post by scotty79 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #82
scotty79 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All spending should be taxed instead of income. Income is too easy to move and hide. Spending tax could be unified framework encompassing all financial activity. If you purchase anything, labor, imports, energy, stock, politicians, you should be taxed. Spending is the moment when the money shows its ugly head and does harm.

Correct, and it could be implemented as a power law formula that makes it impossible for the super rich to avoid tax (since they are the only ones that can spend a lot). It also aligns incentives with environmentalism and reducing waste and consumption. And poorer people are automatically exempted from tax since the power law formula parameters be set to slowly ramp up. This is also easily accomplished now that almos…

Do you have any keywords for me that I could read up on?

I came up with the idea of puchase tax and progressive real estate tax myself, but I'm sure other people had same ideas before me.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#240

Post by lacy_tinpot »

undersuit wrote: post #203
lacy_tinpot wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this explains why the US is out ahead in GDP, income, and is doing much better pre and post covid than Europe. It's not so much breaking laws, but unnecessary restrictions and harassment by Europeans states. The US is business friendly. It's industry friendly. We don't needlessly harass the business of sovereign individuals, and the state apparatus isn't being used as an excuse as to exert power or influence ov…

As an American surrounded by Superfund sites I would like some of these unnecessary restrictions and harassment by the state. The US is so beholden to private interests we can't even repair the roads or mandate healthcare without making it into a market.

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