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Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

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Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#231

Post by edanm »

dang wrote: post #59
FireBeyond wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the las…

It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to resp…

I don't love this idea. I feel like it's just going to force even more busybody work into the process - now companies will need to "respond" to every applicant, no matter how irrelevant, so that response isn't going to be high-information anyway.

Someone else suggested a good idea - make companies link to their previous request. Or even better - don't allow companies to post the exact same listing for months in a row. The actual behavior you're trying to root out is a company listing a position that isn't real - so just don't allow them to list the same not-real position over and over.

I don't know if that can be enforced, though it should be easy to script up something that checks this. But you're not going to enforce anything anyway, and I think this gets closer to actually what we want to achieve.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#232

Post by punkbit »

neonrider wrote: post #144

I'd love to go back to times where it was fine for a candidate not to have a LinkedIn. Currently, regardless of your blog, or your multiple StackOverflow answers, or your GitHub, or your posts on any of the other tech-focused communities, if HR doesn't see your LinkedIn, it's as if you're off-planet. The tech field is centered around skills. You're under pressures to keep them sharp and up to date. When you're lookin…

Hi, I never had a LinkedIn account or profile. Been working professionally for more than 15 years. It’s a good way to avoid distractions. You might miss on being told about opportunities, but other than that, are you sure you’re being cancelled for not having one?

When I interview, I often ask the recruiter to share the cv, portfolio, and GitHub/other. As they often just share a LinkedIn URL but that’s up to the interviewer and team to decide if enough to compromise theirs and the candidates time.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#233

Post by punkbit »

itqwertz wrote: post #204
itqwertz wrote: post #6

Don’t use LinkedIn or Monster or Indeed. You’re better off searching on Google with “ inurl:careers” and finding positions these companies are directly hiring for.

There is benefit to being an active participant in your job search. I don't depend on anyone for employment, as self-employment is ALWAYS an option if you're serious about longevity and profit ($$$). Honestly, the ideal approach if you're going for traditional W-2 steady paycheck employment job is: - recruiters/people already approach you. This works when you build your network and reputation. - use your network of t…

Great statement “be an active participant in your job search”. That says everything about the job seeker!

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#234

Post by punkbit »

ryandrake wrote: post #187
rightbyte wrote: post #13

Hireing and being hired seem to have devolved into a bilateral spamfest. The more applicants per position, the more applications you need to fill. “Always, always, always put networking as one of the top components of your job search strategy,” This is such a strange advice. It is too late when searching for a job. A 'network' takes year to build.

Embarrassing admission: I don't really understand how "networking" works when it comes to getting a job. It's always just stated: "Go network, bro!" but without any explanation of how it is supposed to work. I wish someone could pretend I was a dummy, and explain the process to me using simple words. From start (you don't know anyone working at company X) to finish (you accept a job at company X). I remember long ago…

That’s the gold digger’s approach. It’s quite saddening! When I find myself looking for a new job, I do my best to look for open opportunities shared to everybody, not through obscure connections. I like to imagine that everyone should have access to the same opportunities. Of course that if somebody gets in touch based on past experiences or circumstances that’s fair!

Maybe some of these networking people are the same that force others to come to the office to entertain them?

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#235

Post by mantas »

astrange wrote: post #139
mantas wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 million/year? There’s definitely an amount that’d allow to find enough workers locally. The other question is how much would the produce cost and how many people would be willing to pay.

Once it gets that high, they don't need to work because they can retire. (Or buy the farmland themselves and resume paying migrants to do it.)

More like living costs would balloon. And farm workers would become middle class. Which IMO makes sense, since it’s a damn hard job.

Land price would also balloon.

Or local farming would collapse and 99% of food would be imported. But massive import taxes are more likely since this is national security question.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#236

Post by dawnbreez »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #183
singlepaynews wrote: post #136

I think there’s a legitimate market opportunity here. I am seeking a cofounder to build the job board that vets employers, and makes money by charging candidates to access it. The problem to be solved, imo, is ghost listings. - I don’t care if a company ghosts me because they hired someone else - I care if I spend time filling out applications for jobs that don’t exist I’m not sure how to make participation by the em…

>. I am seeking a cofounder to build the job board that vets employers, and makes money by charging candidates to access it. Sounds like awful monetization. Dating site issue is right. Your best candidates (so ideally, all the ones you vet) won't be long term subscribers. And sadly, there's way too many grifts in the job system where a candidate paying is a red flag. You'd need to offer the candidates something of va…

What if the employer was charged a subscription fee, instead of waiting until they find a hire to charge? Then the incentive is for the company to find a hire quickly, since they're now paying per month instead of per head. Some companies will balk at this, obviously, since existing services charge them per head and they don't know how fast a viable hire will appear...but I'd guess that this would be highly effective at weeding out 'employers' who have no interest in employing any new hires.

(Also, seconding the part about grifts where a candidate is charged upfront. Charging upfront for access to training materials, equipment, or some kind of licensing agreement is often a sign that you're about to get roped into a multi-level marketing scam.)

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#237

Post by couscouspie »

joe_the_user wrote: post #124
thegrim33 wrote: post #82

Well I opened the article, near the beginning I saw the text: "81% of recruiters admitted to posting ads for positions that were fake or already filled." Instantly that felt completely insane to me, my bullshit detector went off the chart, so since they provided a source, I followed up on the source to see the evidence for myself. What do you know, the source is from a "my perfect resume" website that apparently cond…

I've done tech interviewing for years. Job listing that are to various degree fake are quite common. Of course, fakeness comes in many flavor, from listings posted just to "see if there's anyone out there" (I had a boss who did this regularly) to jobs a supervisor really does want to fill but which they know they won't because the bureaucracy has forced impossible requirements on them. An example: "Junior programmer,…

What is the benefit of knowing "that anybody is out there"? Subjective devaluation of current employees?

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#238

Post by StackRanker3000 »

couscouspie wrote: post #237
joe_the_user wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done tech interviewing for years. Job listing that are to various degree fake are quite common. Of course, fakeness comes in many flavor, from listings posted just to "see if there's anyone out there" (I had a boss who did this regularly) to jobs a supervisor really does want to fill but which they know they won't because the bureaucracy has forced impossible requirements on them. An example: "Junior programmer,…

What is the benefit of knowing "that anybody is out there"? Subjective devaluation of current employees?

I took that to mean ”we don’t really need anyone right now, but if someone who is very good applies, we’ll hire them”.

Edit: Or maybe not, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42012035

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#239

Post by thirdacc »

itqwertz wrote: post #204
itqwertz wrote: post #6

Don’t use LinkedIn or Monster or Indeed. You’re better off searching on Google with “ inurl:careers” and finding positions these companies are directly hiring for.

There is benefit to being an active participant in your job search. I don't depend on anyone for employment, as self-employment is ALWAYS an option if you're serious about longevity and profit ($$$). Honestly, the ideal approach if you're going for traditional W-2 steady paycheck employment job is: - recruiters/people already approach you. This works when you build your network and reputation. - use your network of t…

Did you have previous experience when you became self-employed? I'm strongly considering this but I feel that I haven't had enough experience in the 9-5s. I also really need steady income in the near future to pay off loans.

Re: Ghost jobs are wreaking havoc on tech workers

#240

Post by orwin »

thrw42A8N wrote: post #113
orwin wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Europe jobs have to be published No. If you publish it, you have to give an estimation of the salary, but that's the only limitation, at least in my country. Companies have internal guidelines, like in mine, you can't hire a relative to your own department, but the job i got wasn't on a public listing, it's my agent who gave my CV to my current team leader, he was interested, organized an itw, then 3 month later…

Yes, just not everywhere.

So we agree it isn't European law? Just practice for some big companies that want to avoid cryonism?
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