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Quit Social Media (2016)

calnewport.com

231–240 of 281 posts

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#231
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do we not? We meet friends in life through school, work, hobbies. There's at least a time commitment to some common space if not a financial one. Friendship grow and die based on whether you can easily continue to see them - a common scenario for the dynamic changing being they no longer participate in the common space.

Friends through work, school and most hobbies are transient - they come and go, temporary only. With friends as in people in your life who you want to really be friends with, you both make changes to be able to keep the relationships. Otherwise it dies. And you certainly do not go "either you buy this app or I am not friend with you anymore".

I mean, you can go cold turkey when changing jobs/work/hobbies but you don't have to.

Sometimes people only want to do that hobby so you don't have a choice but if you hung out with them outside of the origin activity then likely you can hang out with them without that origin activity.

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#232
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an infinite feed of content with comments and ranking based on upvotes (aka likes)

It is social media, but I'd argue that it lacks the worst incentives of social media: monetization and ads, which lead to attention-hacking algorithms and regression to lowest common denominator content.

It still leverages social and internet points which for some is attention-hijacking enough.

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#233
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is exactly what social media is. social media is a definition of sourced content, nit the quality of the latter

To me it’s just a crowd curated list of links, more like early day Yahoo

Remove the comments and votes and I agree. But you just left a comment

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#234

I've completely quit social media except for LinkedIn, which I need for my work, and Reddit, which I selectively use for product recommendations and advice on my career and relationships. And also Twitter, through which I receive the latest research in my domain. And Instagram, which my girlfriend uses to send me memes and videos. Occasionally Facebook for event invitations. And this website. But other than that I've…

It's like looking in the mirror

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bruh... it's Friday. And this is a post about social media participation. Not your existential waxing. You don't see any irony whatsoever in what you're spouting?

Urg, so American. It's Saturday.

Where? Definitely nowhere in the Western Hemisphere (excepting Chukotka and whatever else is floating out in the Pacific west of the IDL), and in maybe only half of the Eastern Hemisphere as of this very moment.

And that's 'ugh' in English. ;)

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it foster a community? I don't think I've connected with anyone on here beyond a single thread in the few years I've been around, and I consider myself a typical user Not looking for a fight or anything. I'm just curious about different perspectives and definitions of social media. The responses so far have been interesting

Media used to be few or one entity speaking to many Social media is many people speaking to many HN is social media

Then wouldn't public access TV, call-in radio shows, or the news be social media as well since they typically involve many-to-many interactions? Or is there more to it?

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#237
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it’s just a crowd curated list of links, more like early day Yahoo

Remove the comments and votes and I agree. But you just left a comment

A comment isn’t social media to me, every news site used to have a comment section but wasn’t social media.

It lacks the connection between the commenters.

You can’t follow or block comments, or at least filter or sort them

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#238
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hackernews is such a social circle. Besides the incredible moderation done by @dang I think the artificial barriers to interacting with the community are what make this a successful forum. I seem to recall needing at least 5 submission karma before you can comment - and that means 5 votes from _other_ people.

Good luck with a contrarian post or comment here. They get flagged or downvoted to oblivion.

That's partly true, but there's also a confounding factor that contrarian posts are more likely to break HN's guidelines [1]. For example, they're more likely to be snarky or ranty. These qualities are rightly downvoted and flagged on HN, not contrariness per se.

This comes from fundamentals, unfortunately, so it's hard to change.

The trouble is that someone posting a contrary view usually feels under pressure going in. They know that their post will land in hostile territory, anticipating that the majority won't receive their opinion (or them) well, and they're not wrong. They'll probably be met not just with disagreement, but with lazy truisms and putdowns that majorities always feel are obvious.

The more contrarian a view is, the more common the majority response is not to engage with it, but to question why anyone would ever say such a thing. Often the majority invents sinister or preposterous explanations for this. (On that, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35932851.)

Because the contrarian commenter expects to be treated this way, they typically defend themselves pre-emptively with armor like snark, name-calling, and so on, presumably to lessen the pain of being rejected. It's as if there's an implicit (or sometimes even explicit) sentence, "I know you're all going to pile on me anyway so fuck you in advance."

Downvotes and flags do end up piling on such comments, no doubt partly because majorities consider them "obviously" wrong and bad, but more because of this pre-emptive guidelines breakage. This rejection only confirms the contrarian poster's feeling that the community is against them, so we end up in a tight and vicious bind.

The flip side to that bind is that when contrarian views are expressed in this defensive-aggressive way, it gives the majority a perfect excuse to keep on feeling that its views are obviously right while others are mean and bad. The contrarian ends up discrediting their own view. When they happen to have some truth on their side (as they often do), this is bad for everyone [2].

I spend a lot of time on this from a moderation point of view because it's such a tough tradeoff. It's terrible for HN when contrarian and minority views are reflexively rejected. It's also bad when guidelines breakage doesn't get downvoted or flagged. We can't carve out an exception that says it's ok to break the rules when you feel surrounded by people who disagree with you.

This dilemma is not the contrarian/minority's fault. They're genuinely under greater pressure. It's easy to stay within the rails when all you have to say is conventional and the smug majority (aren't all majorities smug?) will upvote you. It's hard not to protect yourself with barbs when you're in a vulnerable position to begin with.

Worst is when the contrarian is coming from a minority—any kind of minority, not just the obvious kinds—who have a different background from most of the community, and so naturally have different views. The majority response in such cases can get ugly quickly. I've seen mobs hound such commenters off HN, which is one of the worst things that can happen and one of the most important to protect against. It happens by itself; no one is thinking "let's form a mob and hound that deviant". It comes from the fundamentals, as I said, of how groups (and forums) work.

From a moderation point of view we have two tools, I guess, for this. The first is to try to explain to contrarian commenters the unfortunate situation that there's a greater burden on them than there is on others, and that if they don't want their posts to be self-defeating, they need to bear that pressure while writing their comments neutrally [3]. It's not fair; it sucks; but it's how group dynamics work—we can't change it. If the majority/minority demographics were reversed, people would be doing the same in the opposite direction. I don't like to tell people that they have to do more than others through no fault of their own, so I try to make it clear that I'm on their side—not necessarily in agreeing with their view, but in feeling the position they're in.

The other moderation response is to try to recognize these dynamics when they're occurring and find ways to tilt the ship a bit back towards even. It's not ok to break the rules when expressing a minority opinion, but there are ways of explaining the rules that hopefully communicate a sense of welcome along with the explanation. Conversely, when majority commenters are breaking the rules, there are ways of responding to that which add an additional layer of reproof that is appropriate to the worseness of the phenomenon.

Unfortunately these "tools" are quite insufficient—partly because they're so costly in moderator time, energy, and feeling, and partly because the phenomenon is so large and intense. I do think, or faintly hope at least, it's possible for some of this knowledge to find its way into the culture, and that the community as a whole can shift—only a little, and slowly, but for real.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

[3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#239

I was one of those security/privacy people in the 00's who declined to join facebook or do any of the social media stuff. Feels like it was the right call. Meta was the best possible company name for the social media machine, because when you turn it all off, you really do become less meta. I'd suspect it's a bit like being a vegan, where it's a self-imposed constrant that makes you aloof from others and makes them t…

It's probably easier on your social life to be a vegan, compared to not being on Facebook.

and yet...

Re: Quit Social Media (2016)

#240
post #31

I won't advertise but I work for a company which holds a social media for cooking and recipes. Folks there are totally averse to those and based stuff. It has been hard for the company. The owner decided the company will die before using ads (for many reasons). The paid plan is stupidly cheap and when people sign and use for a month they stick with the company for years. But it is hard. Company laid off 80% of the te…

I mean can the owner compromise and just do ads based on the content on the page? Those weren’t so bad in the “before times”. Maybe that just doesn’t bring in enough cash as ads that follow you around 10 different sites trying to sell you the same thing, but it seems like giving up free money and might be worth a shot.
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