Accountability sinks • Hacker News Board

Re: Accountability sinks

#231

Post by sameoldtune » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

smugglerFlynn wrote: post #175

xg15 wrote: post #114

My suspicion I'd that one of the major appeals of automation and especially "app-ification" for management and C-Suite types is specifically its ability to break accountability links. A lot of corporations now seem to have a structure where the org chart contains the following pattern: - a "management layer" (or several of them) which consists of product managers, software developers, ops people, etc. The main task o…

If you think back to less automated times, management was the programming —- you built instructions and procedures that allowed organisation to scale and improve your end product. The only thing that changed is that now instructions and procedures are oftentimes executed by software and hardware, not by actual human beings. Hence the use of software engineering wing, in addition to your usual, sorry for the lack of b…

Nothing has changed for rich people who didn’t see their employees as people anyway. When you are the one stuck with a computer as your boss then tell me nothing has changed. Good luck getting a reference for a better job!

Re: Accountability sinks

#232

Post by intelVISA » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #119

k1t wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A computer can never be held accountable, therefore all Management Decisions shall be made by a computer." - Management, 2 seconds later.

Therefore all management decisions are made by the people writing the code Hence coders are the new managers, managers just funnel the money around, a job which can be automated

Soon(tm)

Re: Accountability sinks

#233

Post by RobotToaster » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:38 PM UTC

bigiain wrote: post #42

alilleybrinker wrote: post #15

Cathy O'Neil's "Weapons of Math Destruction" (2016, Penguin Random House) is a good companion to this concept, covering the "accountability sink" from the other side of those constructing or overseeing systems. Cathy argues that the use of algorithm in some contexts permits a new scale of harmful and unaccountable systems that ought to be reigned in. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/241363/weapons-of-m...

Brings to mind old wisdom: "A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a Management Decision." IBM presentation, 1979

See also: “To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer.” —Paul Ehrlich

Re: Accountability sinks

#234

Post by scotty79 » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:40 PM UTC

It's a reasonable thing to do. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. If you could demand responsibility from any grievance you have from anyone they could dement responsibility from you for the distress you caused them with your grievance.

Re: Accountability sinks

#235

Post by bornfreddy » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:41 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #187

eru wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, rebooting is offensive to me as a programmer. Kernel updates and memory leaks are the only reason you need to reboot. How absolutely shitty is modem firmware that the ISP actually spent the time to build this reboot system out??(Never mind that I personally don't feel like I've ever had a modem/isp actually problem solved by rebooting) Why is rebooting offensive to you? State is hard; resetting your system to…

If your microwave had an error, you would be put off if you had to power cycle the whole house. Installed a new receptacle, sure, but operating an appliance? No way. Now you would have to reset your clocks everywhere at a minimum. I have a linux computer running a public server that has not be restarted in three and a half years. This is what I expect. Every time I have to reboot my work laptop due to work pushing so…

Windows is awful at this. Completely weird problems with many apps (especially VPN) which get resolved with a reboot. Seriously? It is the whole culture around this OS which finds this acceptable.

Re: Accountability sinks

#236

Post by albedoa » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:45 PM UTC

throwaway48476 wrote: post #148

jazzypants wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, yet these companies won their lawsuits, and no wide scale voter fraud was ever found. So, your point is entirely irrelevant.

You're confusing terms here. Voter fraud is fraud by voter. This is not what we're talking about with the voting machine susceptibility.

[flagged]

Re: Accountability sinks

#237

Post by rahimnathwani » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:49 PM UTC

sega_sai wrote: post #213

That's a really thought provoking article. And my thinking is this highlights the importance of government consumer protection agency/laws as the protection against that. I.e. when you fly through Europe or use European airlines, there is this EU law that gives you compensation of ~ 600 EUR if your flight is delayed by more than 3 hours or cancelled or whatever. This is a good insurance that no matter what BS is thro…

  And the process of getting the money is reasonably straightforward.

Not always. The airlines often lie.

Re: Accountability sinks

#238

Post by ksec » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 2:57 PM UTC

Ma8ee wrote: post #216

ksec wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont believe the largest company on planet earth by market cap has the problem as bad as government, even in a smallish country.

I guess you haven’t worked in many large companies. I’m currently working for a large American company, and the waste and inefficiencies there beat most Swedish government agencies I’ve ever have had to deal with.

I wouldn't be surprised with Waste and inefficiencies, but this is about Accountability. And I did work in both Fortune 500 companies and within Government.

Re: Accountability sinks

#239

Post by dambi0 » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 3:00 PM UTC

presentation wrote: post #164

atoav wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the root of all that? Privatization.

Given how good the rail systems are in several Asian cities despite/thanks to being private, you might want to reconsider that opinion.

I presume running a national rail system is somewhat different from a railway for a single city. How good are the national rail systems in these countries?

Re: Accountability sinks

#240

Post by hollerith » Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 3:02 PM UTC

ksec wrote: post #238

Ma8ee wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you haven’t worked in many large companies. I’m currently working for a large American company, and the waste and inefficiencies there beat most Swedish government agencies I’ve ever have had to deal with.

I wouldn't be surprised with Waste and inefficiencies, but this is about Accountability. And I did work in both Fortune 500 companies and within Government.

I read your Comment with Pleasure, sir.