Live data from Hacker News

The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

theguardian.com

231–240 of 255 posts

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but, in certain quarters in Great Britain, arse is pronounced as if it had no R

An inherited Americanism in itself.

While non-rhotic accents are common in parts of America, the dominant theory among linguists is that this was a result of Americans copying a trend in England, not the other way around, as you seem to be asserting:

> By the 1770s, postvocalic /r/-less pronunciation was becoming common around London even in formal educated speech. The English actor and linguist John Walker used the spelling ar to indicate the long vowel of aunt in his 1775 rhyming dictionary.[4] In his influential Critical Pronouncing Dictionary and Expositor of the English Language (1791), Walker reported, with a strong tone of disapproval, that "the r in lard, bard,... is pronounced so much in the throat as to be little more than the middle or Italian a, lengthened into baa, baad...."[8] Americans returning to England after the American Revolutionary War, which lasted from 1775 to 1783, reported surprise at the significant changes in the fashionable pronunciation that had taken place.[16]

...

> The loss of postvocalic /r/ in the British prestige standard in the late 18th and the early 19th centuries influenced the American port cities with close connections to Britain, which caused upper-class pronunciation to become non-rhotic in many Eastern and Southern port cities such as New York City, Boston, Alexandria, Charleston, and Savannah.[9] Like regional dialects in England, however, the accents of other areas in the United States remained rhotic in a display of linguistic "lag", which preserved the original pronunciation of /r/.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English#History

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#232
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the reply about the garbage lorry is word for word, isn't it? Did this get a second chance and it moved all the other comments with it, or...?

>Did this get a second chance and it moved all the other comments with it, or...? Probably. When that happens the comments don't get moved, their timestamps get adjusted to match the repost timestamp.

Meta but that seems like a pretty dishonest and confusing system.

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, recently there is a push in the US to normalize African-American (for the lack of a better name) grammar and spelling, e.g. using "do" in place of "does". Wonder if this includes normalizing the usage of British spelling as well.

> normalize African-American (for the lack of a better name) grammar and spelling The name is “Ebonics.” It’s had its own name since the seventies, although the push to “normalize” it peaked in the nineties. > Wonder if this includes normalizing the usage of British spelling as well. No.

Thanks, I haven't heard of Ebonics before. Looks like at this point in time its usage is becoming discouraged (the term, not the phenomenon it describes).

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Australian term "budgie smugglers" is really the best to use in this specific situation.

Surely that refers specifically to the "brief" style, whereas I'd expect "trunks" to have a bit of thigh coverage.

Budgie smugglers does indeed only apply to the brief style, but those who like banter and wordplay will try to work it into any conversation involving male swimwear. E.g. "Fetch your budgie smugglers fellas, we're going to the beach", or "sorry ladies, my budgie smuggling days are over. It's boardies for me."

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> normalize African-American (for the lack of a better name) grammar and spelling The name is “Ebonics.” It’s had its own name since the seventies, although the push to “normalize” it peaked in the nineties. > Wonder if this includes normalizing the usage of British spelling as well. No.

Thanks, I haven't heard of Ebonics before. Looks like at this point in time its usage is becoming discouraged (the term, not the phenomenon it describes).

Like so many things that become objects of policy argument in the United States, the term describing it became overloaded to the point where it was rendered less useful. You don't hear the term so much now.

The term reached peak use around the time (I'm going from memory here as far as timeline) some educators began exploring the concept of teaching kids who spoke Ebonics at home with some of the same techniques they would use to teach English as a second language students. America reacted with the focus, intelligence, and empathy it always does when issues of education and race are brought up.

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I haven't heard of Ebonics before. Looks like at this point in time its usage is becoming discouraged (the term, not the phenomenon it describes).

Like so many things that become objects of policy argument in the United States, the term describing it became overloaded to the point where it was rendered less useful. You don't hear the term so much now. The term reached peak use around the time (I'm going from memory here as far as timeline) some educators began exploring the concept of teaching kids who spoke Ebonics at home with some of the same techniques they…

Yeah I am starting to notice that (not from the US originally) re: how America reacts to this topic. Also, it looks like even the term "ebony" itself in the context of African-American culture is considered archaic.

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Europe, British English is used as a reference point Anecdotal counterpoint, but… I’m a British English speaker, but many of my colleagues are Continental Europeans, for whom English is their second language. Part of my job involves copy editing and, almost without exception, their output is written in American English.

Is it because Microsoft Word default spellchecker settings?

No, it's due to the ovewhelming exposure to media from the U.S., mere spellcheckers oughtn't interfere with 'underground' vs 'subway', 'film' vs 'movie', 'flat' vs 'apartment', and so on and so forth.

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colour and realise I suspect most American readers would be able to understand just fine. But you start writing tyre, kerb, and gaol, and there will be real reading comprehension issues that start arising. We have standardized spellings for a reason and that's what schools are there to teach. And this is just spelling, not even going into words that have different meanings in the US vs UK like pants and lemonade.

I love this example. I felt ick at realise but yeah, still understood it. Tyre I thought no way, that can't be tire. Kerb, wait, like curb?? And then gaol I think my tongue tied itself in knots and gave up trying to imagine what it might actually mean lol.

Archaic spelling of "jail". Read it with a soft g and a long a and it makes a little more sense. There's also the derivative "gaoler".

(American here, but that's one I've come across before.)

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#239
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of a phrase I've seen on signs in both the UK and in Aus/NZ (IIRC): "No fly tipping". I'm not sure if this is actually correct usage in those countries, or slang, but it certainly feels much more like slang, and felt virtually impenetrable, even to someone who's been exposed to a fair but of UK-isms in his life.

I don’t think Aus/NZ would use it in this manner. It would be more likely to see “no dumping”.

I remember going on a walk in London with my dad when I was little and we ended up in Hyde Park (this is late 1970s). There was a sign that said 'no dumping" which he chuckled at and explained to me the slang term 'dump', as in 'to defecate'.

Re: The other British invasion: how UK lingo conquered the US

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you live in the US, I agree that you must use American English. Why though? I think you missed my point with the rationale for this. See below. > But even us people that live outside of the US/UK/related countries often got errors marked, because we used the wrong regional variant... In Europe, British English is used as a reference point, but I had a similar problem as GP. That makes perfect sense though? The p…

As a computer science student in England we were told we should use ‘program’ rather than ‘programme’ since that was the convention in our subject. If I remember correctly BBC Basic accepted COLOUR as well as COLOR keywords to be more approachable to primary school children who were native English speakers.

To me, a program is on a computer, a programme is broadcast on TV.
Post reply on HN