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WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

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Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#231

WP Engine calls itself the worlds #1 wordpress hosting (with over 1.5m clients), but they aren't even in the top 10 material contributors to wordpress. Although they have pledged to support wordpress development, is is only to the tune of 40 hours a week. Their pledge is miniscule given their usage of wordpress and isn't even in the top 25 pledges made. It seems they were called out on this, and told to resolve it or…

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Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#232
As a software developer, I can understand the point Matt is making but it's sad to see him calling another competitor a "cancer" to the web. I like Wordpress and was inspired by it a lot but with many years hosting Wordpress sites for our customers, I find its plugin and theme architecture very vulnerable and often be the backdoors for hackers/scammers to launch attacks on servers hosting Wordpress sites. Whoever hosting Wordpress sites must do a good jobs securing their servers to prevent exploits through the Wordpress plugins and theming system. I dont know much about WP Engine but they should be credited for securing their massive Wordpress installations. In my opinion, Matt should focus more on fixing the weaknesses of Wordpress architecture than bashing his competitor, Wordpress is really a pain point to those providing hosting for it. We used to provide Wordpress hosting and did customize it as a website builder but due to its fragile architecture, we have decided to develop our own CMS system, with 3rd party plugin and theming system inspired by Wordpress but have built-in protection mechanism to prevent backdoors potentially exist in 3rd party code.

Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#233
post #201
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt admitted on reddit that he asked for 8% of annual revenue or ~40 million. https://www.reddit.com/r/Wordpress/comments/1fnz0h6/comment/... He posted this after receiving the C&D.

Notably, Matt demanded that would need to be paid to Automattic instead of the WordPress Foundation. (that's according to WPEngine). Automattic is Matt's private, for-profit company and a direct competitor to WPE.

Matt's message reads:

> They had the option to license the WordPress trademark for 8% of their revenue, which could be delivered either as payments, people (Five for the Future .org commitments), or any combination of the above.

So they could have "paid" by just hiring a few WordPress devs to work on it. That is: not necessarily by transferring dollars to Automattic.

IMHO this is an important bit of nuance missing in this thread.

Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#234
As a former WordPress engineer that built one of the worlds largest commercial WordPress deployments, I have a secret to tell you.

WordPress, out of the box, if you throw even a portion of traffic that you would expect form a large media site at it, will fall over.

We modified WordPress, took advantage of all the hooks, basically rewrote the post authoring and search system and introduced caching and databases on top of the default MySQL, such as ElasticSearch for content storage and searching content. We also had a network level CDN in front of it at all times.

By the end of it all, what we had was not fully WordPress anymore.

You'll find that alot of organisations doing WordPress are doing similar things.

Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#235
post #228
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably, Matt demanded that would need to be paid to Automattic instead of the WordPress Foundation. (that's according to WPEngine). Automattic is Matt's private, for-profit company and a direct competitor to WPE.

That's because Matt's Foundation gave Matt's Automattic the exclusive commercial trademark license. https://x.com/photomatt/status/1838671002529665394

Matt gave away the software he invented and founded a commercial venture to monetize his efforts despite this. Automattic originally registered the trademarks. Years later they donated them to the foundation, to make the marks available for noncommercial use and limited commercial use. In the process Automattic retained the exclusive commercial license to the marks.

Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#236
post #4

> Automattic CEO and WordPress co-creator Matt Mullenweg unleashed a scathing attack on a rival firm this week, calling WP Engine a “cancer to WordPress.” In my experience, WordPress itself could be called a Cancer to the Web. The amount of new clients I've picked up who needed help rescuing broken and malware ridden WordPress sites is... well, it's more than I'd like as I really do not enjoy WordPress LOL

WordPress isn't that bad. Okay, the code is kinda messy in some places, but which 25 year old project isn't? And yes, in the early days it was cowboy coding, but those days have been over for more than 15 years.

What "broken and malware ridden WordPress site" typically means is "customer installed a bunch of random plugins from random sites written by teenagers or bozos who don't know what they're doing". And yes, that can screw things up, but that's not really WordPress's fault IMHO.

Maybe it can do more to protect users from this; I don't know. But obviously the plugin ecosystem is a hugely important part of the WordPress platform and you can't just lock that down technically. Just make sure you only install plugins from authors who aren't teenagers or bozos.

I'll add that personally I don't especially like WordPress for various reasons. But at the same time I don't think this is really a fair criticism.

Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#237
post #107
post #105

Just as an observation this reminds me of the dynamic that other open-source software distributors are tasked with defending. Let's say you were distributing a browser, let's call it Firefox. You might have a corporation and a nonprofit and call them the Mozilla Corporation and the Mozilla Foundation. Maybe in this scenario you would allow certain commercial uses of your registered trademarks so that the software cou…

I don't think any of those issues you raised passes the bar. ffxsource.. no. The most trusted build. no many people build their own and it could be trusted more because someone is testing the official build and making changes and ensuring it works. The most trust Firefox Tech company is accurate. It implies many firefox tech companies exist and they are the best one.

Take a look at Red Hat's guidelines, based on the open-source Model Trademark Guidelines (CC-BY-4.0), for comparison. They advise they consider it acceptable for you to claim "[Your brand] software is built from modified source code derived from Red Hat Enterprise Linux." However, without additional permission you cannot "Use the Red Hat Marks in a way that expresses or implies sponsorship or endorsement by, or affiliation or a relationship with Red Hat when one does not exist."

[0] https://www.redhat.com/en/about/trademark-guidelines-and-pol...

[1] http://modeltrademarkguidelines.org/index.php/Model_Trademar...

Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#238
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Because he's never litigated a case in court.

I said that and other bits too. It's their argument, not mine. The original reading RE: punctuation seems highly academic but not definitive

Not a cop out, the people filing the CD felt this was enough to move forward with

Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#239
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Abuse of position" is not generally an actionable claim.

Unfair competition is, particularly in California, which interprets it's UCL very broadly. Let's set aside all other claims (there are others), and take a look at "Unlawful, Unfair, and Fraudulent Business Acts" under that. We'll also throw out unlawful business acts (I don't see anything unlawful so far). Unfair: "An “unfair” business act or practice, as defined by the UCL, is typically committed by either a company…

Piling on re: mixing roles: I read "abuse of position" in the GP comment as "conflict of interest," which is potentially problematic for a board member of a non-profit.

I can't speak to the veracity of the facts presented in WP Engine's C&D letter, but my reading of it is they're accusing the head of the WordPress Foundation, in his official capacity, of putting the interests of his for-profit company ahead of the non-profit's stated mission to "ensure free access, in perpetuity, to the software projects."[0] That's the sort of thing that could threaten the foundation's 501(c)3 status, or in extreme cases lead to criminal charges.

[0]: https://wordpressfoundation.org/

Re: WP Engine sent “cease and desist” letter to Automattic

#240
post #235
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because Matt's Foundation gave Matt's Automattic the exclusive commercial trademark license. https://x.com/photomatt/status/1838671002529665394

Matt gave away the software he invented and founded a commercial venture to monetize his efforts despite this. Automattic originally registered the trademarks. Years later they donated them to the foundation, to make the marks available for noncommercial use and limited commercial use. In the process Automattic retained the exclusive commercial license to the marks.

Where is the invention? He forked b2/cafelog and continued work on it when the original project faded out. He had no choice but to give it away unless he wanted the only WordPress install in the world. Another fork like b2evolution or any of the billion blogging tools at the time would have taken the spot WordPress did instead.
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