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We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

takes.jamesomalley.co.uk

231–240 of 317 posts

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#231
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution says the government cannot take private property for public use without providing just compensation. I don't know whether any similar right exists in the UK.

Yes, it's in the European Convention on Human Rights, which despite the name also covers companies' rights.

I think it mainly covers the rights of the people who own companies, which amounts to the same thing.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear: UK Parliament is sovereign. If it passes a law forcibly legalising it, the privatised Royal Mail can sue the government but would need to find an international treaty obligation to win. Even then, if Parliament flagged it and said "we're ignoring this treaty in this case" then the courts are bound to the law, not treaty obligations. If it has knock-on impacts in other areas, it's hard to say, but th…

Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR covers exactly this, so the Supreme Court (and ECtHR if it came to that) would probably find in favour of Royal Mail if this were to be done without compensation.

The court would make a "declaration of incompatibility" with the ECHR which leaves it up to Parliament to change the law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_incompatibility

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#233
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know what’s usual in France, but it’s usual in Germany for apartments to not have numbers. You have to put your name on your mailbox, and there’s no way to address something to someone who doesn’t live in the apartment. If you’re filling out government forms, you sometimes have to put in something like “third floor left side” so they know where you actually live.

Same in Iceland I think. No name on the door? No mail.

Costa Rica doesn’t have numbers on the buildings, and many streets lack street signs, if not names. You’ll have addresses like “50 meters north of the old church” or “behind the banana stand.”¹

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lat/long coordinates and metres are actually linked quite closely: the metre was originally defined as "the arc from equator to North pole is defined as 10,000 km". That is, 90 degrees is 10,000 km.

And if the French had had their way, we’d use grads not degrees and latitude would instead be 100 grads per 10,000km, so each grad of latitude would be 100km. That kind of sanity was, of course, unacceptable to the rest of the world.

The French were really into decimalization for a while. They tried decimal time (10 decimal hours per day, each 100 decimal minutes, each 100 decimal seconds), and a new calendar with equal 30-day months (the extra days at the end were national holidays, in September in the Gregorian calendar). Also 10-day 'décades' instead of weeks.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#235
post #227
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8,200 in Germany is way too low, and I'll add some fun facts. According to Wikipedia 30,000 of the theoretical 98,901 are currently in use. The number of people per postcode does vary a lot, from zero (no one lives in a company that has its own postcode) to none living in a demolished village of Billmuthausen (right on the inner-German border) or the two people living in a district that had no postcode until the prob…

Some larger retail stores in Germany ask you for your postcode during checkout, presumably to learn a bit about their customer base. I don't mind telling them mine, there are about 16K people with the same postcode. But I'm pretty sure I would not tell them if I was one of the two forest rangers in Reinhardswald. (And yes, I do pay cash whenever I can.)

Interesting, is the German postcode not used for transaction validation? I know the American payment processors definitely use ZIP codes for validation - see anecdote 1.

That said, there are definitely situations where the payment processors don't require the ZIP code - see anecdote 2.

Anecdote 1: When I worked in food service as a kid, I used card terminals that connected directly to a phone line. I remember a couple of times when I entered the ZIP code incorrectly - the card terminal would print out a receipt with an angry message saying the transaction got rejected. So, I know they were using the ZIP code to validate the transaction.

Anecdote 2: With those same card terminals, you could skip the ZIP code and it would run the transaction as usual. But, my manager always told me not to do that. Maybe I never asked him why, or maybe I forgot his answer. Regardless, I don't remember why we he required us to enter the ZIP code, even when it didn't seem to be necessary.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#236

As he points out, this was a profoundly stupid mistake made when privatising Royal Mail. It would have been trivially easy to do at that point, but now it's a lot harder. If the government decided that it does want to do this, it can't just pass a law that says "the PAF is now free" without paying hundreds of millions of pounds in compensation to Royal Mail. That's quite apart from the ongoing costs of maintaining th…

Privatising Royal Mail was itself a profoundly stupid mistake.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#237
post #132
post #48

Some context, for people not located in the UK - A full British postcode typically aims to cover around 15 buildings (sometime a single building, sometimes a street of 50 houses). This is in contrast to many other postal code systems which cover relatively broad areas). Or to put it another way - UK - 2,643,732 codes, 1 code per 25 people, USA - 41,700 codes, 1 code per 8000 people, Germany - 8,200 codes, 1 code per…

The USA does have zip+4 which is an extension on the zip code system and sounds like it’s about as specific as the UK one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code#ZIP+4

In some cases, your zip+4 is uniquely your address, too. My townhouse was a new development and after complaining for over a year that I wasn't able to sign up for Informed Delivery, I was assigned a new unused +4.

That said, most people don't use the +4 when getting directions or the like, it's just used for postal service.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are public, but the post office changes the last 4 digits every few months so there is no point in telling anyone what yours is. These days the post office can look up your street address and give you all the information they need - which is an 11 digit bar code good for the next week.

My 9-digit zip hasn't changed in at least 10 years.

Mine has not changed in 25 years.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like bad design by the property developer and a sloppy building authority. The first is corroborated by the lack of unit numbers. Who does such a thing? The BAN actually only tracks down to the plot level, so I assume all your structures are on the same plot. From there on it is the building authorities job to check building plans and to enter the substructures into the cadastre, where they are usually le…

I don’t know what’s usual in France, but it’s usual in Germany for apartments to not have numbers. You have to put your name on your mailbox, and there’s no way to address something to someone who doesn’t live in the apartment. If you’re filling out government forms, you sometimes have to put in something like “third floor left side” so they know where you actually live.

Britain also has "dwelling designations" like "3FL" (third floor left) commonly used to describe unnumbered flats (which may well have numbers or not). I suspect this way of referring to flats is unofficial, but it is commonly seen on letters.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#240
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sometime a single building Fun fact- some postcodes cover only a fraction of a building. There’s buildings where 3 postcodes are used. Same street number, same main entrance, but different post codes. Edit: A 2-postcode building example is “M3 7GW” and “M3 7GX”, both go to 55 Queen St, Salford.

Apparently the worst case in the opposite direction is the University of Warwick, where a single postcode (CV4 7AL) covers 5000 individual residences (so probably about 5000 people given these are likely to all be student rooms, and sharing a room is uncommon in the UK).

Though tbf (assuming they haven't changed it since I left), Royal Mail's responsibility stopped at the post room. The individual residences were delivered by UoW staff using a pigeon hole type system; anything larger than a letter and you had to go to the post room to pick it up.
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