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NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

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Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#231

Post by bratwurst3000 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #186
ipaddr wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A welder making double outside of the government would take a chance the more experience they have. Similiar to how many people here would rather get a job at Amazon vs the government. Chances are you are out in a year or two compared to a government job where you can survive longer for half of the pay. Remember we are talking about experienced aircraft welders. They are not available for 20 an hour when industry is…

Collins Aerospace is offering $19/hr for third shift welding work on aircraft. It was referred to me by someone in the labor community, and I spoke with HR under the guise of a prospective candidate to confirm. They do $26B/year in revenue.

excuse me but what is third shift welding? is this the security lvl of the welding job?thank you

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#232

Post by Dalewyn »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #227
Paradigma11 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line. While it is true that it is globally not very active in military terms I am pretty sure that this is going to change when more and more economic partners are realizing that there is no more money coming from China and it is cheaper to just default on their debt and nationalize Chines…

>China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line. Populist words are cheap. I'll start blaming China for warmongering when they actually put boots on the ground. Meanwhile how many dorne strikes has the US made in the middle east without any consequences?

Wars don't have to be waged with rubber and lead; actually, fighting a war is about the worst possible way to wage one.

No, China is waging a war against the entire world in the smartest way imaginable, and most of us don't even realize it: They have their financial tendrils in all of our economies, down to the core elements and throughout the peripheries. Nearly everything has at least some degree of Chinese monies and thus influence now.

It's really only a matter of time until Pax Americana comes crashing down because we are all far too busy complaining about our navels. Be prepared, because Pax Sino isn't going to be kind to most of us.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#233

Post by bratwurst3000 »

GVRV wrote: post #208
dandellion wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone else is curious this article has close-up photos of the joints: https://arstechnica.com/science/2013/04/how-nasa-brought-the...

Can someone please explain why this is a high quality welding job? In India, welders are not paid handsomely and are rarely rigorously trained but I'm unable to distinguish between a welding job done by them compared to these photos.

didnt read the article but I am assuming it is the material they are working on. copper and iron are easy to handle but aluminum is a bit harder and then there is stuff like titanium which recuire very high skills… and all those cases with titanium with steel or whatever. they need to know what they are doing. …. got my information from my ex roommate who welded bikes with titanium and he was a highly skilled enthusiast.

https://www.cwbgroup.org/association/how-it-works/how-it-wor...

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#234

Post by inglor_cz »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #177
School-Cotton wrote: post #23

Does anyone actually seriously believe the U.S. will land a person on the moon in 2025? This is the country that takes decades to open a new subway station.

That was always a bullshit date. No different than elder Bush's Mars in 2030. 2028, maybe if everything goes well with Starship, and the suits. Their lunar variant is still a disaster waiting to happen without a better design. We've seen how Starship destroys a launch pad with ill-conceived flame diversion. How is it going to land on unprepared regolith without toppling in its own crater or destroying the engines wit…

"We've seen how Starship destroys a launch pad with ill-conceived flame diversion. How is it going to land on unprepared regolith without toppling in its own crater or destroying the engines with rebounding shrapnel?"

Starship has fewer engines than Super Heavy, it likely won't be landing at full throttle either, and lunar lander Starship could have landing legs as well. The lower gravity on the Moon means that you can carry more hardware with you. Maneuvering in 0.16 g is nowhere near as fuel intensive as in 1 g.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#235

Post by somenameforme »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #193
edmundsauto wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think has changed since the 1960s? There were high paying private industry union protected skilled jobs, but many people went to work for NASA.

The USSR had just beat the US to put the first man into space. The same USSR that was killing political dissidents en masse and building an arsenal of terrifying nuclear weapons. John F. Kennedy set out the ambitious goal of putting a man on the moon before the end of the decade, and then he was assassinated. People wanted to make that happen. So they did. There hasn't been a lot to inspire people to work for the gov…

While this is how this story is regularly retold it's not quite accurate. Polling around the Moon program tells that while there was a large minority of people vehemently in support of it, the overall response was mixed, and NASA was generally seen as a good target to cut funding from. [1]

I think there are lots of parallels between the Moon landings in the 60s and the idea of colonizing Mars today. In particular, most people don't think it's possible, and so they think it's a waste of money. The Apollo program only received majority approval once we landed on the Moon. People also tend to dramatically overestimate the cost of achieving great things in space. Polling suggested people thought the Moon missions were taking up about 22% of the budget. In modern times it's down to less than 0.5%, and that's with NASA blowing tens of billions of dollars of pork projects like the SLS.

Overall support for the Moon program only began to steadily rise in the years after human spaceflight was defacto completely cancelled by Nixon, and people were able to coolly reflect on what a ridiculous and important achievement that was.

[1] - https://www.space.com/10601-apollo-moon-program-public-suppo...

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#237

Post by inglor_cz »

QuesnayJr wrote: post #218
whatshisface wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviet Union would actually send managers to GULAG for "wrecking," or other labor crimes, and it didn't really help. In fact, "accountability" was the only thing the USSR did not have a short supply of. Extraordinary punishments don't help if the system for figuring out who's doing a good job, and who isn't, is not working in the first place.

I think this is the key point, one that gets neglected in these discussions. It's easy to say we should reward people for doing a good job, and punish people for doing a bad job, but that determination will be made by people, and those people can have an agenda. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Wouldn't the best punishment be "just no longer give them any public money, until they show in the private sector that they improved their quality of work"?

That is way less brutal than Hammurabi or Stalin, and still gets the point home.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#238

Post by Paradigma11 »

defrost wrote: post #230
Paradigma11 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line. While it is true that it is globally not very active in military terms I am pretty sure that this is going to change when more and more economic partners are realizing that there is no more money coming from China and it is cheaper to just default on their debt and nationalize Chines…

> and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line. FWiW : The Republic of China (ROC), or simply China, was a sovereign state based in mainland China from 1912 until its government's retreat in 1949 to Taiwan, where it is now based. The nine-dash line, also referred to as the eleven-dash line by Taiwan, is a set of line segments on various maps that accompanied the claims of the People's Republic of China (PRC, "m…

It is somewhat disingenuous to say that Taiwan claims those regions. China has made it clear that any abdication of those claims would be seen as a move towards independence and result in invasion.

Similar to the Chinese claims that the British never brought democracy to HongKong while China threatened invasion if any such thing had happened.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#239

Post by Paradigma11 »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #227
Paradigma11 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line. While it is true that it is globally not very active in military terms I am pretty sure that this is going to change when more and more economic partners are realizing that there is no more money coming from China and it is cheaper to just default on their debt and nationalize Chines…

>China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line. Populist words are cheap. I'll start blaming China for warmongering when they actually put boots on the ground. Meanwhile how many dorne strikes has the US made in the middle east without any consequences?

But the massive buildup of the Chinese Navy and their paramilitary maritime militias are not cheap. In the end the only thing that matters is if China invades Taiwan there will be war, if it doesnt there wont be. Better be prepared for the first case.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#240

Post by moffkalast »

mihaaly wrote: post #221
jtriangle wrote: post #3

Headline makes it sound like it's intentional, like Boeing knows the moon's haunted and wants to prevent people from going. Turns out they're just a giant company suckling on the teat of mommy government and have developed severe structural dysfunction that prevents them from effectively executing their plans.

Title of The Economists article form April: > Can anyone pull Boeing out of its nosedive? Apparently the answer is a sound no. They decided to proudly shoot themselves into the stomach, then mitigating the situation by setting themselves on fire. The inspector general is wrong saying "blame on the aerospace giant’s mismanagement and inexperienced workforce". How can someone blame clueless person? The blame is on thos…

To paraphrase the investigators of the average Boeing airliner crash: "A trained pilot would not have been able to regain control in the required time"
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