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Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

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Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#231

I think we are going to have to give up anonymity in the name of democracy. Unless you can confirm that your vote has been correctly counted, how can you ever be certain what they have done with it?

Can you think of any problems that would arise from non-anonymous voting?

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#232
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand this battle-of-experts thing happening here. The Venezuelan authorities released the vote totals. They work out to exactly 51.2% vs 44.2%. That did not happen in the real world. Could not have. We don't need the Carter Foundation to tell us these results are false. They are manifestly false.

I would say that the obvious rigging of the vote is a desired effect. Ditto for the obviously outlandish accusations of meddling by the Chilean secret service. I think the message being sent now is: "I can rig the elections, you see it, and you can't do anything about it. I win because I say so." And his supporters see it and are happy that their leader is not a wimp. Sr. Maduro's friend, Mr. Putin, has been sending…

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Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#233

Here's this re-explained with a simpler example. Imagine you have 1,000 votes. You want to show that your political party got 60% of the vote, so, you claim: My party: 600 votes Opposition: 300 votes Other: 100 votes Presto, we got a good breakdown. The people will buy it.... It makes sense that 600 is exactly 60% of 1,000, because this was an artificial example. But in the real world, we don't get 1,000 votes. We ge…

Thanks. Note to self: Next time I want to rig election results, generate a random integer between 54.2% and 54.3% of the vote and count it as the winner's vote, subtract from total pool, wash rinse repeat.

It's remarkable that they don't do this.

The sheer incompetence of the Maduro government and other governments that rig election results is surprising.

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#234

Here's this re-explained with a simpler example. Imagine you have 1,000 votes. You want to show that your political party got 60% of the vote, so, you claim: My party: 600 votes Opposition: 300 votes Other: 100 votes Presto, we got a good breakdown. The people will buy it.... It makes sense that 600 is exactly 60% of 1,000, because this was an artificial example. But in the real world, we don't get 1,000 votes. We ge…

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Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#235
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://x.com/yvangil/status/1817787106237743565

I don't see the total number of votes/ballots. Is the vote in Venezuela 100% electronic? If not, there might be invalid paper ballots, too.

They are read aloud by the presenter in Spanish (both total votes and percentages). You can also see them in the tweet if you don't speak Spanish. The announcer appears to represent the national electoral council (Consejo Nacional Electoral), so it's unlikely that he didn't have access to the exact counts (and had to compute them from percentages).

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given Lula's past dedication to (sic) Chavezism Brazil has quasi-presidential system, but it's Chamber of Deputies has the actual power. In the 2000s, Lula's PT was the largest party (usually around 20-25% of the total seats) and could as such strongarm smaller leftist parties into a governing coalition with an absolute majority. Lula won the presidential election in 2022, but his party PT was the 3rd largest, and…

I am confused. Are you arguing that Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva's official public stance on the Venezuelan election has no influence?

What I mean is he's way less publicly pro-Chavismo than he was in the 2000s because he is limited politically.

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#238
I used to think that there’s something terribly embarrassing about watching people like these lying in such a pathetically obvious way. Like catching my 5 year old in a lie. But I think I’m realizing that it simply doesn’t matter. They just need the “forged document” to hold up in their hands. Not to survive scrutiny.

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#239

Here's this re-explained with a simpler example. Imagine you have 1,000 votes. You want to show that your political party got 60% of the vote, so, you claim: My party: 600 votes Opposition: 300 votes Other: 100 votes Presto, we got a good breakdown. The people will buy it.... It makes sense that 600 is exactly 60% of 1,000, because this was an artificial example. But in the real world, we don't get 1,000 votes. We ge…

If I'm in charge of forging a presidential election, how difficult is it for me to use realistic, "ugly" numbers to sell it more effectively?

Use the real numbers but change the owners of each count.

Except, of course, if the winning party has a huge advantage which you don't think people would buy.

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#240
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question was "How likely is it that the votes worked out so well that they were basically even 1/10 percentages and not ugly numbers?" So for a given number of votes, which determines a split, how many times does the split come out so nice? Answer: Effectively none - there are always ugly numbers with lots of decimal places. Now that analysis comes after they conjecture that the percentages were fixed apriori. Th…

Another way of writing it out: How likely is it that you'd get these votes distributions 51.2000000% 44.2000000% 04.6000000% exactly? With all of those clean 0s? Very low. But it's also possible that there was sloppy reporting and the vote counts were re-processed at some point in the chain and rounded to one decimal place.

Actually if you're going that many decimals its

  51.1999971%
  44.1999989%
  04.6000039%
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