Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

404media.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 379 posts

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#231

Post by SlackingOff123 »

zooq_ai wrote: post #214
pluc wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying 60 million to every site you want to index is also a bad precedent to set. Why can Reddit get paid and XYZ can't?

Anyone can ask for licensing deal. I'm sure NY Times, Conde Nest all have licensing deals. Mr. Beast signed a deal with Amazon. Joe Rogan with Spotify. Why is it hard to understand? Even HN can get a licensing deal if they want to. If you are producing content, you have every right to do what you want to with the content.

Reddit is not producing any content; its users are.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#232

Post by not_wyoming »

zooq_ai wrote: post #211
arnaudsm wrote: post #186

I understand the AI context, but this is dangerously anticompetitive for other search engines. This is a dangerous precedent for the internet. Business conglomerates have been controlling most of the web, but refusing basic interoperability is even worse.

There is nothing preventing search companies paying the same $60 Million to license content. If reddit had exclusive agreement, it would be anti-competive. This is classic HN anti-Google tirade (and downvoting facts, logic and concepts of free market)

> There is nothing preventing search companies paying the same $60 Million to license content.

Yes, actually, there is - having $60m to throw around.

"Barriers to entry often cause or aid the existence of monopolies and oligopolies" [0]. Monopolies and oligopolies are definitionally the opposite of free market forces. This is quite literally Econ 101.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barriers_to_entry

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#233

Post by lmeyerov »

morkalork wrote: post #208
lmeyerov wrote: post #200

FWIW, we inquired to the reddit sales team about paying for data sometime last year, as we do similar elsewhere for use cases like helping emergency responders, and even though they were launching the program and asking for customers... no email back. Nor on our second and I think third attempt. I'm not sure what to make of that.

How much were you willing to pay? Still, rude of them not to even discuss the issue. Every time I've gone to buy data, if I'm too small of a fish, vendors have always been happy refer me to a reseller.

We do 4-6 figures/yr for providers which is normal in our world

An enterprise sales team with only 1 customer happens (eg, Mozilla 's search bar), but... That's surprising here, and scary as a sustainable & scalable business. Ignoring 5-6 figure/yr inquiries says a lot to me. In contrast, we did that same-day with Twitter without talking to anyone.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#234

Post by gtirloni »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #22

This is an interesting development. How many other sites might have leverage to charge to be indexed? I don't want to live in a world where you have to use X search engine to get answers from Y site - but this seems like the beginning of that world. From an efficiency perspective - it's obviously better for websites to just lease their data to search engines then both sides paying tons of bandwidth and compute to get…

> but this seems like the beginning of that world.

It's not the beginning, it's mere continuation.

Walled gardens have existed since the AOL days. They deteriorate over time but it doesn't prevent companies from trying (each time, in bigger attempts).

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#235

Post by heisenbit »

morkalork wrote: post #208
lmeyerov wrote: post #200

FWIW, we inquired to the reddit sales team about paying for data sometime last year, as we do similar elsewhere for use cases like helping emergency responders, and even though they were launching the program and asking for customers... no email back. Nor on our second and I think third attempt. I'm not sure what to make of that.

How much were you willing to pay? Still, rude of them not to even discuss the issue. Every time I've gone to buy data, if I'm too small of a fish, vendors have always been happy refer me to a reseller.

Certainly rude but also possibly legally problematic. If they were judged to be in a dominant position in a market and were found making deals with exclusivity then it can get expensive.

It all depends of course what the market is. If one looks as reddit not as a whole but as a collection of niches then one could imho find niches where reddit has a dominant knowledge position.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#236

Post by bryan_w »

dvngnt_ wrote: post #172
crazygringo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bing probably has the money to reach a deal, smaller companies without monopolies is less likely, and that's the problem. Reddit can charge smaller companies less money. So if there's a problem, again, the problem is 100% with Reddit . Google is absolutely blameless here. You may not like Google, and you can certainly blame them for plenty of other things. But in this situation, literally all of the blame is with R…

takes two tango. reddit can't do anything without google signing papers as well

I don't think you're right about that.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#237

Post by gtirloni »

eddd-ddde wrote: post #223
daft_pink wrote: post #102

I don’t understand how this isn’t anti-competitive behavior. It seems like reddit has to offer this deal with similar terms to google’s competitors.

I don't see how this tracks at all. Companies can decide to only sell their products with some retailer if they want. You can't force them to make deals with other companies.

You certainly can in monopoly situations (which apparently this isn't the case).

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#238

Post by MichaelZuo »

dev1ycan wrote: post #194
MichaelZuo wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bing provides far fewer verbatim results for pretty much all search queries that I've tested. And Yandex isn't much better for non cyrillic search, Baidu is only for the Chinese web effectively. And all other search engines either don't even attempt to do full web crawls anymore and/or buy from one of the four above. So realistically there's just one search engine for the full web that actually does the work.

Brave has their own search engine, yandex I only use for reverse image search, baidu's interface is really clean and feels like old school google... but I don't speak chinese so I can't use it. I hope that one day they get a western version

Brave doesn't have its own index of the full web, and it's even less useful than Yandex. And very likely buys some of it, according to what I've heard. So it falls into the last category.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#239

Post by gtirloni »

neilv wrote: post #213

I'm concerned multiple ways by this, but I also could see some positive fallout from this, if it sets precedents that help protect 'content' owners from AI goldrush companies just taking everything.

AI companies are the least of our worries in the Reddit situation. The fact that Reddit has full control of user-generated data to do as they please gives them freedom to do as they please. I think this is the crux of today's issue.

AI companies like Google, Microsoft and OpenAI have deep pockets to 'unprotect' themselves from anything. The barrier to entry is for small AI companies and those aren't really making an impact currently.

Re: Google is the only search engine that works on Reddit now, thanks to AI deal

#240

Post by zooq_ai »

SlackingOff123 wrote: post #231
zooq_ai wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can ask for licensing deal. I'm sure NY Times, Conde Nest all have licensing deals. Mr. Beast signed a deal with Amazon. Joe Rogan with Spotify. Why is it hard to understand? Even HN can get a licensing deal if they want to. If you are producing content, you have every right to do what you want to with the content.

Reddit is not producing any content; its users are.

Not the point. If users don't like it they can go somewhere else to post.

For practical purposes, reddit can do whatever they want with users post. It's right there in TOS

Post reply on HN