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Copying is the way design works (2020)

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Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#231

Post by guappa »

karaterobot wrote: post #227
guappa wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a full time design team where I work. The menu items got decided before they all got hired. What they do is to move them around every few months, change the colours, design our application with a mobile layout, despite 99% of our users being on desktop computers…

Keep in mind that the design team usually doesn't just make up work items, somebody is telling them to work on some product area. That somebody could be a product manager, or somebody higher up. Presumably there's a reason for them to be working on those things, and it's related to creating some sort of value for users and the company. If not, there just won't be a design team there for long.

Well if they have no tasks they will create some like "improve xxx". You don't want to be without tasks for too long…

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#232

Post by RunSet »

gyomu wrote: post #73
karaterobot wrote: post #18

> As a designer, I feel the need to be original. If you’re a designer, or even if you’re just interested in design, you probably feel the need to be original, too. I've been a professional designer since 2006, and I got over that thinking pretty quickly. A designer trying to be strikingly original is rarely acting in service of the design. If you want to be strikingly original, you probably want to be an artist inste…

Design is about navigating ambiguity, and finding which fine lines to walk when resolving tensions inherent to opposing constraints in any sufficiently complex problem space. There is rarely a single best solution to such problems. Originality certainly has a role to play in there - many (most?) iconic products were strikingly original. Would the iPod have been a better designed product with a D-pad (or other standar…

> Or the Wii with a standard gamepad?

Or the 3DS without the 3D?[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_2DS

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#234

Post by The5thElephant »

chefandy wrote: post #212
The5thElephant wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many comments here are just anecdotal experiences pretending to be absolute statements. Web design used to be filled with ridiculously detailed and "over" designed websites that rarely were hyper-focused on clarity or efficiency of communication. It's only recent years where that has become such singular focus, and in turn has created a sentiment that UI and web/app experiences have lost their charm. Many of the c…

> So many comments here are just anecdotal experiences pretending to be absolute statements. Well I've got a pretty recent design degree and have a lot of exposure to what people are thinking and how people are practicing in this field. If you've got some empirical evidence that challenges that, I'm happy to consider it. > Web design used to be filled with ridiculously detailed and "over" designed websites that rarel…

All of what I am saying is anecdotal observation of trends and behaviors, nothing objective or measurable, just like what you have been saying. I also have been in the industry since the era of table layouts and slices.

I bundle UI/UX together because that's what most design teams end up doing, both. In my experience only very large companies commit the resources to having dedicated UX research. It's only telling of the practical reality, not of my knowledge of UI or UX.

My point is that there is no universal "purpose" to design. Design is a practice that can be applied to a wide range of purposes, some more aesthetic, some more functional, and in all cases are struggled to be measured by subjective or objective means.

The popular designers I refer to are not from advertising backgrounds. They are all "design engineers" who make things that stand out from the rest because they can actually produce their work and thus are capable of way more than the crazy limitations Figma or other design tools put on us. The trend amongst tech startups has been landing pages that follow the aesthetics of companies like Linear and Stripe. Whether or not they are functional, they stand out because they are flashy.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#235

Post by brailsafe »

carlmr wrote: post #133
caseyohara wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this couldn't be further from the truth. It might be true for DJs playing "main stage" style EDM (poppy mainstream music) but for most electronic subgenres – especially techno – the crowd absolutely expects the DJ to be a superb crate digger and pull out new and deep tracks they've never heard before. No one goes to a techno club to hear rinsed tracks; they want the DJ to show them music they've never heard befo…

It's like the perfect conterexample, a good DJ needs to have really good taste and constantly listen to new tracks and think about where they can be used. Designers everyone thinks are more creative than they are. DJs most people think are less creative than they need to be.

Sounds to me like they work out to be the same in this respect, only differing in perception. Both are solving problems with approximately similar levels of caching ideas and techniques and experience, while developing proficiency with similar quantities of tools. They're both generally making their money solving problems with all of that, only occasionally getting a chance to express themselves in some unusual artistic way that most likely won't be a viable income stream until they've really made a name for themselves; save for the rare circumstance they are Aphex Twin

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#236

Post by collinmanderson »

turnsout wrote: post #188
iczero wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was no theft. I didn't know that touring somewhere meant you could copy all their designs. Was that explicitly stated?

If you read a bit about it, you'll understand that Apple did not copy the Alto—they did something that was actually way harder. They created a better version of what the Alto was attempting to do, and got it to run on lower-grade hardware they could sell for 1/10th the cost. But yes, Xerox knew exactly what they were doing when they invited Steve and his team in.

> But yes, Xerox knew exactly what they were doing when they invited Steve and his team in.

Right. Xerox got Apple stock out of the deal. Not really stealing. Bought and paid for.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#237

Post by CRConrad »

phpnode wrote: post #176
jrflowers wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most DJs do not make their livings at techno clubs. The majority are hired to play bars and events that do not cater to particularly discerning audiences.

Exactly. The DJs that are innovative, crate digging, slightly pretentious music nerds are almost exclusively hobbyists, with a vanishingly tiny percentage of them being able to eek out a meagre living from it. The majority of full time DJs cater to mainstream audiences who absolutely do want to hear the same 50 - 100 tracks on rotation every time they go out. They want to dance and sing along to music that they're fa…

> with a vanishingly tiny percentage of them being able to

eke. Yeah, really: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eke_out#English

> out a meagre living from it.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#238

Post by karmakaze »

kragen wrote: post #182
karmakaze wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a lesson that always seems to fail to be learned. Xerox had the capital to set up a research arm, then failed to convert on any ideas because they were too focused on their current cash-cow. They eventually transitioned to "document company" where a document wasn't only paper, but it was too little/late.

you're talking about xerox parc in the 70s xerox parc in the 70s invented the laser printer. the laser printer has been almost all of xerox's business since last millennium. their current revenues are 7 billion dollars a year, almost entirely from laser printers (mostly in disguise.) so i'm not sure it was 'too little, too late' or even 'failing to convert' (right now i think xerox is unprofitable, but that's an issu…

The way I read this is that it's like how Microsoft missed out on mobile even after making Windows Phone by underestimating just how important it was as a future market.

Re: Copying is the way design works (2020)

#240

Post by kragen »

karmakaze wrote: post #238
kragen wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're talking about xerox parc in the 70s xerox parc in the 70s invented the laser printer. the laser printer has been almost all of xerox's business since last millennium. their current revenues are 7 billion dollars a year, almost entirely from laser printers (mostly in disguise.) so i'm not sure it was 'too little, too late' or even 'failing to convert' (right now i think xerox is unprofitable, but that's an issu…

The way I read this is that it's like how Microsoft missed out on mobile even after making Windows Phone by underestimating just how important it was as a future market.

maybe so? i'm not sure microsoft underestimated it; i think google and apple just beat them is all
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