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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#231

Post by s0rce »

zozbot234 wrote: post #189
torpfactory wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a very sizable number of low paying, dirty, dangerous, and/or boring jobs that we can’t find enough locals to do. Think farm hands, home care aides, meat processors, etc. Unskilled immigrants do those jobs because that’s what is available to them (I.e unskilled). If they weren’t doing those jobs, we’d have to pay significantly more for the goods and services that labor depends on. Immigrant labor is disinflat…

These jobs are low-paying because they're broadly unproductive. If some of them weren't doing these jobs, the wages paid for them at the margin would increase. We are vastly better off importing more skilled immigrants to high-income countries, compared to unskilled ones.

If we didn't have lower wage workers doing farm work food would be way more expensive and less diverse. I'm not sure how you judge the productivity of the worker...

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#232

Post by amanaplanacanal »

_heimdall wrote: post #194
greenchair wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

correction: anti-illegal immigrant platform. the 3rd worlder influx of criminals is negative for the country not positive.

What is and isn't legal immigration is always a moving target. A majority of US history included open borders where it was legal for anyone to get off a boat, provide some basic info, and go on to try and make their way here. The idea of closed borders, immigration caps, etc is relatively modern and driven more by the fact that social entitlement programs cost money than a fear of dangerous people coming here.

The original immigration laws were explicitly racist. They were long before the entitlement programs existed.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#233

Post by ponector »

gottorf wrote: post #201
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

Some are unable, other groups are successfully integrating. Like Ukrainian refugees into neighboring European countries, especially Poland.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#234

Post by dakiol »

gottorf wrote: post #201
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

> It is not desirable to have separate ethnic groups who "share the same language, culture and faith" distinct from the mainstream.

Why not? Mainstreams are temporary. The Romans shifted from pagans to christians in just a decade (officially speaking). The German speaking region of Belgium was annexed in the 1900s (now the country has 3 different official languages). The whole latin america started speaking Spanish long before they became actual countries. Spain was mostly muslim for over 700 years.

There’s no mainstream. We are always changing and the mix is always better.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#235

Post by hyperpape »

pton_xd wrote: post #172
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

> the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. Explain how unskilled illegal immigrants contribute to our success. I'm open minded but I've yet to hear anything convincing. No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers.

> No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers.

Steve Bannon, Trump's chief strategist in 2016, argued that the quantity of Asian CEOs in Silicon Valley undermined "civic society" https://web.archive.org/web/20161117164322/https://www.theve....

There absolutely are a lot of people who want to restrict legal immigration. If you deny that, you're just pretending that you're not helping them out.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#236

Post by linearrust »

BurningFrog wrote: post #163

Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them.

> Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba.

And that's the only embargo that matters. Given a choice between an embargo by the US or embargo by the rest of the world, cuba and every country in the world would choose 'the rest of the world'. Especially so for cuba since it's just right off the coast of florida.

> The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them.

No they do not.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#237

Post by gottorf »

epolanski wrote: post #181
joecool1029 wrote: post #140

Again and again I've been arguing for access to information. Let Cuba land an underwater cable in Miami. Ever since I was young I was fed this line 'Glasnost helped accelerate the collapse of the Soviet Union, people wanted things their government wouldn't give them... free access to information not filtered by their government', but the US argues for some reason that Cubans can't have this. Is it fear of an even big…

Russians didn't give two shits about "free access to information", they cared to see that people in US lived richer lives that's it. Russians in Soviet union had to illegally trade and commit felonies to get their hands on some Italian mortadella. They had to go through insane lengths to buy a new tv. It wasn't glasnost but the oil crisis that ultimately killed the SU's economy and made people think that in democracy…

> richer in absolute terms, but poorer in relative ones.

Off topic, but it's funny how big of a problem this turns out to be in real life.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#238

Post by ponector »

pton_xd wrote: post #172
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

> the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. Explain how unskilled illegal immigrants contribute to our success. I'm open minded but I've yet to hear anything convincing. No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers.

> No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers.

That is not true. If no one is opposing immigration of skilled workers then why getting a visa is a lottery?

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#239

Post by tfchtfgfc »

pton_xd wrote: post #172
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

> the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. Explain how unskilled illegal immigrants contribute to our success. I'm open minded but I've yet to hear anything convincing. No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers.

[dead]

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#240

Post by alluro2 »

gottorf wrote: post #201
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

Yeah, but it seems like some nations are only willing to invest a low amount of effort in it working out. I.e. if you're highly educated skilled worker who will integrate on their own, great. If you're a manual laborer who will do the work no one wants, for less money, pay tax and integrate their kids, great. But if the host society needs to invest in their education, social programs and integration, then screw it, let them ghettoise and hope the resulting jump in nationalism and animosity towards them will balance things out.
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