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I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

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Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#231

Post by qingcharles »

admax88qqq wrote: post #204
Zetaphor wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this pace it would likely take decades just for them to be complete enough to show up on MDN or wpt.fyi The important thing to keep in mind with this announcement is that the glacial pace was previously a restriction of being attached to SerenityOS. Everything needed to be built from scratch with no reliance on third party libraries. Now that they're detaching from Serenity they can start reaping the benefits of…

Indeed! Now they can use chromium and get a big running start /s I’m not sure what in the FOSS ecosystem will actually help them if they’re trying to take a fresh set of eyes on implementing a web browser. EDIT: ga sibling comment beat me to the joke

It depends what the end goal of Ladybird is. I'd be happy with a browser that just had literally zero telemetry and I could install plugins to block ads.

Some things in other browsers could be used without much pain, e.g. image renderers, JavaScript engines. Things that are totally self contained and can be used until someone writes a suitable replacement.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#232

Post by mgarciaisaia »

I don't know much from Andreas other than reading a couple of his posts from here, but he's a bit of a superhero to me. Wholesomely humble guy that started what's usually deemed as a massive coding project, from scratch, just to put his head out of some shit - and the guy not only manages to make two great projects, but also identify and adult his way out of one of them for both project's good.

Respect, man.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#233

Post by shiroiushi »

Aurornis wrote: post #169
skeaker wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extremely uncharitable view of Firefox and an outrageously generous view of Windows. The things you listed take 2 checkboxes in a new tab window, 2 checkboxes in settings (which has a search bar that takes you right to them by just searching "studies" or "data collection"), 2 checkboxes in settings (search "suggestions"), 2 clicks (right click the pocket button and click hide)... The only tricky one is the…

> This is an extremely uncharitable view of Firefox and an outrageously generous view of Windows. The things you listed take 2 checkboxes in a new tab window, 2 checkboxes in settings (which has a search bar that takes you right to them by just searching "studies" or "data collection"), 2 checkboxes in settings (search "suggestions"), 2 clicks (right click the pocket button and click hide)... The only tricky one is I…

How big a deal it is depends on what you're comparing to. Yeah, at first, when I read his post, I was wondering if it was a joke or something, with so many checkboxes in different places. Then I got to the point about Windows and realized he's right: compared to Windows, all those steps in Firefox actually aren't that bad, and actually stay unchecked unlike Windows which happily changes things back.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#234

Post by shiroiushi »

bgribble wrote: post #77
The_Colonel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree (apart from the popular hate on Firefox). Ladybird is promising and has a much bigger chance to make an impact than SerenityOS. But it's a bit disappointing to see that it's still pretty much a one-man project. Especially to have a chance to get close to the performance of Chrome and Firefox, it will need a large investment. The amount of engineering resources poured into just making JavaScript fast is mind-n…

> But it's a bit disappointing to see that it's still pretty much a one-man project. I don't know much about this project and I have never used it. But in my experience as a developer and user of software I couldn't disagree more. The longer something can stay a one-person project, the better! Nothing kills creativity, innovation, and velocity faster than having to make every decision by committee. Big communities ar…

>or turning into a murderous wacko

A good example of truth being stranger than fiction.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#235

Post by shiroiushi »

The_Colonel wrote: post #159
luplex wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's actually the point of faster chips: To make software development less challenging and cheaper.

Exactly. What people also miss that the complexity grew considerably because of the need to cover many more "edge" cases. 30 years ago, you could assume a rough display size (fixed layouts) and DPI (no scaling needed), assume ASCII / ISO-8859-1, assume that the user is able-bodied and doesn't need accessibility features, target just DOS etc. There is also a lot of accidental complexity which you might be able to get…

Don't forget, back in the early days of the WWW, web pages weren't mostly annoying ads. These days, this is very, very important, so we dedicate a lot of computing resources to it.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#236

Post by shiroiushi »

The_Colonel wrote: post #102
bambax wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On recent hardware, how much "performance" do we really need? Wouldn't almost any compliant browser be basically good enough?

LadyBird author posted a couple of days ago a demo of twitter and he himself admitted that it's painfully slow.

That sounds like a feature, not a bug.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#237

Post by account42 »

> Day-to-day communication moves to a new Ladybird Discord server.

Really sad to see so many open source communities choosing closed source, walled off and not publicly visible communication channels.

> Ladybird now targets Linux and macOS. The SerenityOS target is dropped.

Changing the browser development to a cross-platform-first model is great to see but why drop support for its roots completely?

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#238

Post by hashtag-til »

account42 wrote: post #237

> Day-to-day communication moves to a new Ladybird Discord server. Really sad to see so many open source communities choosing closed source, walled off and not publicly visible communication channels. > Ladybird now targets Linux and macOS. The SerenityOS target is dropped. Changing the browser development to a cross-platform-first model is great to see but why drop support for its roots completely?

Not really sure how Discord is popular, given it is impossible to search.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#239

Post by refulgentis »

yyggvbb wrote: post #222
refulgentis wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having watched this over years, and deleted every single comment I've written on it thus far, I'm challenging myself to be honest and forthright. There's another way of looking at, that is confirmed by the same set of facts: - There was an OS project run by an awesome dude with a great story that was seen as in a unique position to compete with big tech companies. - It needed a web browser. - A web browser project wa…

The idea that this is something that companies care about seems wrong.

I agree, and I think it's worth pointing out. A younger me would have misunderstood complex technical work for business / success. Do it to scratch your own itch, but not for fame/money/fortune. Also worth noting the decision to focus on it is an excellent example of this: do what feels right, rest falls into place.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#240

Post by vkoskiv »

hashtag-til wrote: post #238
account42 wrote: post #237

> Day-to-day communication moves to a new Ladybird Discord server. Really sad to see so many open source communities choosing closed source, walled off and not publicly visible communication channels. > Ladybird now targets Linux and macOS. The SerenityOS target is dropped. Changing the browser development to a cross-platform-first model is great to see but why drop support for its roots completely?

Not really sure how Discord is popular, given it is impossible to search.

It's popular because anyone can create their own community with just a few clicks, and it's all paid for by friendly venture capitalists :]
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