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Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#231

Post by sevagh »

klaushardt wrote: post #31
callalex wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how your risk profile will change if you don’t use the feature?

I bet it will happen that some apps i now use, which are in the regualar app store, will be pulled in favor of a own app store which has more tracking and maybe even cost money. So it will be a downgrade if now working apps move to an ad and tracking app store which are not privacy sensitive like iAds.

That's what your app creators want, you should be happy for them to have the freedom to distribute their product to you as they see fit.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#232

Post by wccrawford »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #155
dzogchen wrote: post #145

Sideloading is such a horrible term for “installing apps without Apple’s approval”. And Apple illegally even tries to STILL require their approval.

I agree. I have no idea when "sideloading" as a term became a thing when it's just plain old "installing software".

I think it's because dystopian situations force people to name things oddly.

And yes, I think not being able to put an app on a device that I paid for is dystopian. I also think not being allowed to repair my own devices is dystopian, too.

If no device had ever prevented a user from installing their own home-made apps, "side-loading" would never have become a thing.

For gaming consoles, I was vaguely uneased by it at first, but quickly got over it because it had always been that way. I never had a chance to put my own game on a game console.

But with general-use computers, including mobile phones, the whole idea really bothers me. I PDAs and brick phones had never allowed people to write their own apps, I might be less bothered by it. But (thankfully!) they did. That cat's out of the bag, and long ago.

Even Google's attempts to prevent "sideloading" bother me at this point. Any warning that applies to side-loaded apps should also apply to store-installed apps because they have shown they aren't foolproof.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#233

Post by user_7832 »

fl_rn_st wrote: post #146

The biggest problem rn is Apple's blocking of JIT for everything but browsers. This means neither UTM nor the more modern emulators can run at close to full speed. I'd like to see this changed. This seems like the real "Gatekeeper".

Could you explain what JIT would allow? Would sideloading allow this to "work" or would it need OS support?

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#234

Post by gtufano »

Adverblessly wrote: post #219
gtufano wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy is not-impactful is not true. The disappearance of indie software that do not depend on a remote server (or that's not software on a remote server) is basically due to the inability to monetize with sales native, stand-alone, software. And that's for the piracy. In some way, the success of the App Store towards indie/solo developers is because there was a way to sell things without the piracy easily steal your…

There have been various efforts to estimate the effect piracy has on revenue like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15319476 or http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy So depending on product category it might be a large drop (EU study finds -38% displacement rate for books) but it might also be a boost (EU study finds +24% for video games), and it is hard to say in general, since even a 90% pi…

Well, the point I was trying to make, said in another way is that the initial success of App Store (iOS, in particular) was driven that the fact that , suddenly, users thought that was OK to pay for the software. I think that the (relative) lack of piracy and difficulty for ordinary users to install pirated software has been a key factor in the success of it: "there's an app for that, and I can't easily find it for free".

The other point I was trying to make is that the disappearance of "stand-alone" apps, not tied to a web service, is primarily driven by the fact that, this way, you can avoid piracy. You can offer a free-tier (that would be eaten by the piracy anyway) and sell (say) a synchronize, or additional features tied to a web service (so not printable).

May be it's not the only thing, but that's what (anecdotically) I hear from solo-indie-very small developers.

I fully agree with you on both the current discoverability problem and also with games piracy having a different, may be even not negative effect.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#235

Post by firstbabylonian »

robertjpayne wrote: post #214
firstbabylonian wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ability to install an app off an unsigned IPA file for free I feel like the thinking is that there must be an entity — somebody running an app store — who could be held legally responsible for any damage caused by malware distributed via their channels. Regular non-tech-savvy users cannot be trusted with such delicate software as apps running on their personal phones.

This is the myth that everyone is going to be screwed by. Nobody is going to be legally responsible for malware that ends up on your device. The only difference is Apple has the $$ and incentives to remove it as soon as it's brought to their attention (assuming it's actual malware that may cause large financial loss not just copyright infringement). Alt-stores will be ridden with malware and nobody is going to be leg…

Correct, which is why allowing no-store app delivery would unleash an even greater chaos. In a world where any random website can trick a user into downloading an app via sideloading, there's no hope to protect people from 'unclean' software.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#236

Post by marak830 »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #155
dzogchen wrote: post #145

Sideloading is such a horrible term for “installing apps without Apple’s approval”. And Apple illegally even tries to STILL require their approval.

I agree. I have no idea when "sideloading" as a term became a thing when it's just plain old "installing software".

I would argue the same reason "quiet quitting" has become more of a norm. Corporate interests that are pushed to various media that becomes 'standard'.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#237

Post by IH0kN3m »

chucke1992 wrote: post #223

Personally I am surprised that IPad has its own OS. I thought it uses the same one as iPhone.

It is mostly just an iOS under the hood. Apple separated the iOS and iPadOS, saying that this way they can develop for it separate exclusive features. While we have things like multitasking and stage manager, mostly it’s been an excuse to bring iOS features to the iPadOS with a delay for a year.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#239

Post by TheFuzzball »

cromka wrote: post #206
f6v wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think versatile devices are possible. I love iPad Pro for what it is. I tried Surface Pro and it was a much inferior tablet experience, even though the device is more “versatile”. I just doing think that you can get an excellent tablet by trying to be a laptop at the same time.

It’s a screen. Add a regular Bluetooth keyboard mouse and you have a PC. There’s no compromise here from hardware perspective, it’s just software that’s in the way.

The UI elements on iPadOS are necessarily larger to accommodate touch.

It's just a lot less information dense than macOS, and making it the same scale will make using it as a touch device harder.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#240

Post by wellthisisgreat »

mrighele wrote: post #98
anileated wrote: post #80

Do I think side-loading and alt app stores would make iPads and iPhones more versatile devices? Yes. Do I believe indie devs will be worse off? Unfortunately, also yes. If you are a solo app developer, you will now have to keep presence on all app stores out there, since if you don’t publish on one then a copycat will. Every store would have its own review processes, fee structures, billing and tax procedures. Since…

I disagree. First of all I expect competing stores to ask a smaller cut than what currently Apple asks (and Apple itself may lower it), so it may very well be the case even with a middleman the amount "lost" by the developer will be lower. Not a given though, I guess we will see. Secondly, the Android ecosystem seems to be doing well even with the situation you describe. There are not that many competing stores (most…

> Secondly, the Android ecosystem seems to be doing well

Android apps are notoriously pirated through and through. For a smaller company in developed market anything Android is a second thought because monetization is much harder

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