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A leadership crisis in the Nix community

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Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#231

Post by colinsane »

michtzik wrote: post #220
colinsane wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm fascinated by this because a lot of my involvement in open source is a pretty direct reaction against state actors like NSA who undermine my privacy. and if i wanted to i could point out that the military took other things away from our field too, like Alan Turing. but ultimately, i think the argument is just that any institution which dumps a lot of money into a space deserves loyalty for that alone, but where's…

How did the military take Alan Turing away from our field?

it's believed he committed suicide after losing his employment -- and lots of other things -- on account of being gay. strictly speaking it wasn't the military, but a different part of the security apparatus.

Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#232

Post by colinsane »

steve1977 wrote: post #228
colinsane wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm fascinated by this because a lot of my involvement in open source is a pretty direct reaction against state actors like NSA who undermine my privacy. and if i wanted to i could point out that the military took other things away from our field too, like Alan Turing. but ultimately, i think the argument is just that any institution which dumps a lot of money into a space deserves loyalty for that alone, but where's…

> then it's completely reasonable, arguably expected, for you to act on principles higher than money. Well that was kind of my point. I see people act on principles of morality when it doesn't negatively affect their convenience and at the same time ignore those principles when it affects their convenience. For me that is the definition of a double standard. That's it. I'm not saying we should put these people in jai…

i've spent two years of my life getting NixOS to work well on my mobile phone because i value things like privacy. i assure you, actually ditching Android/iOS on principle is in fact very much not convenient. i do not see the link.

Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#233

Post by steve1977 »

colinsane wrote: post #231
michtzik wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did the military take Alan Turing away from our field?

it's believed he committed suicide after losing his employment -- and lots of other things -- on account of being gay. strictly speaking it wasn't the military , but a different part of the security apparatus.

No, it was not "strictly speaking it wasn't the military" - it was not the military at all. It was the civil legal system in the UK.

If it was suicide at all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Death

Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#234

Post by steve1977 »

colinsane wrote: post #232
steve1977 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then it's completely reasonable, arguably expected, for you to act on principles higher than money. Well that was kind of my point. I see people act on principles of morality when it doesn't negatively affect their convenience and at the same time ignore those principles when it affects their convenience. For me that is the definition of a double standard. That's it. I'm not saying we should put these people in jai…

i've spent two years of my life getting NixOS to work well on my mobile phone because i value things like privacy. i assure you, actually ditching Android/iOS on principle is in fact very much not convenient. i do not see the link.

You are using a mobile phone based on a RISC CPU (presumably) and the Internet. Those are the conveniences I was speaking of.

Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#235

Post by jwilk »

tripdout wrote: post #117
rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When, for people pushing this targeting, fascism/bigotry means having a branch in your repo names master I absolutely believe targeting ideas rooted in fascism/bigotry is a bad thing.

On one hand, I struggle to think that people might actually care about switching "master" to "main", as opposed to making wider improvements to inclusivity. On the other hand, I don't have a strong attachment at all to naming a branch "master" and can easily rename it without a second thought.

> I don't have a strong attachment at all to naming a branch "master" and can easily rename it without a second thought.

It's easy only if you don't care about all the people who already cloned your repo.

Recovering from remote repos renaming their default branches is no fun.

Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#236

Post by jijijijij »

someplaceguy wrote: post #224
jijijijij wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you should know, since you have been involved with both Nix and Anduril, right?! No MIC sponsoring would have been the right course of action. No matter your sympathies, or alliances in your case. To even think of the sponsorship as a valid idea is US centric ignorance. Outside the US people don't get the "Thank you for your service" indoctrination and are way, way more reluctant to work with the MIC. If you kn…

> In particular the civil clause demands that members of the university reject research projects and funding which could serve weapon technology. Wait, what? Are you saying German universities are forbidden from contributing to Nix/NixOS, which is used by Anduril? Or say, the RISC-V ecosystem, which may be used as chips driving military weapons? ... or the Linux kernel? Heck, any OS at all?

Sponsorship with the attached advertisement is very different than "used by". Don't be silly.

Are you even aware, I am referencing the issue of a Nix conference hosted at a German university, or are you in political autopilot drive-by mode?

I linked a Wikipedia article, read it, if you're genuinely interested and not debating in bad faith.

Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#237

Post by colinsane »

steve1977 wrote: post #234
colinsane wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've spent two years of my life getting NixOS to work well on my mobile phone because i value things like privacy. i assure you, actually ditching Android/iOS on principle is in fact very much not convenient. i do not see the link.

You are using a mobile phone based on a RISC CPU (presumably) and the Internet. Those are the conveniences I was speaking of.

closed source CPUs are also a thing i have invested inconvenient amounts of time in trying to overcome [1]. i expect by the latter decades of my life it will actually be feasible.

i'll be honest i don't understand what point you're trying to make. if i owe some loyalty to the military for the conveniences of their products, then would not Anduril owe me loyalty for the convenience of my products? the actual request to Anduril/military is way less than that, btw -- it's less "don't use our product" as "don't advertise in our spaces".

1: https://git.uninsane.org/colin/fdtd-coremem

Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#238

Post by steve1977 »

colinsane wrote: post #237
steve1977 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using a mobile phone based on a RISC CPU (presumably) and the Internet. Those are the conveniences I was speaking of.

closed source CPUs are also a thing i have invested inconvenient amounts of time in trying to overcome [1]. i expect by the latter decades of my life it will actually be feasible. i'll be honest i don't understand what point you're trying to make. if i owe some loyalty to the military for the conveniences of their products, then would not Anduril owe me loyalty for the convenience of my products? the actual request t…

> it's less "don't use our product" as "don't advertise in our spaces"

I guess the problem here is the definition of "our". If Anduril sponsors development of nix, it's as much "their" product and "their" space as it is yours.

Or in other words, they are included in "ours". You might not like that, but that doesn't change the facts.

Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#239

Post by Cthulhu_ »

oivey wrote: post #226
ndriscoll wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose what's interesting to me is why is no one (except maybe you) upset over e.g. this sponsorship list for LinuxCon: https://events.linuxfoundation.org/archive/2022/open-source-... with Google right there as a diamond sponsor and Meta as a platinum sponsor. IBM is also a diamond sponsor, and we've all heard about them and the literal Nazis (and the time they got a license exception for JSLint to be able to use…

An even bigger irony is that one of major community moderators who is mad is an “ethical software engineer” working at Google.

Be the change you want to see within companies. Of course, these companies can - and have - fire the activist employees as well if they become too obstructing, like the ones that were protesting Google Cloud doing business with Israel: https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/17/24133700/google-fires-28-...

Re: A leadership crisis in the Nix community

#240

Post by Cthulhu_ »

fabrice_d wrote: post #204
busterarm wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hundreds of people die preventable deaths every year trying to cross that border. Exposure, dehydration, drowning, etc. If you don't know anything about where these people are you can't do anything to help them. Even if you support open borders, this technology is essential.

How many of them were helped thanks to Anduril products?

What is the purpose of Anduril's products; to help suffering migrants, to keep them out, or some other purpose?

I'm not convinced that a company named after a sword has good intent no matter how well their PR department tries to package it.

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