Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images • Hacker News Board

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#231

Post by tomp » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 7:59 PM UTC

neilv wrote: post #161

trogdor wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are insurance rates regulated by the government? I understand that the state has a strong interest in ensuring that insurance companies are adequately capitalized, but I don’t understand the state interest in directly regulating premium prices. (Or is that not what you are referring to?)

Why is basic insurance for ordinary people a for-profit business at all, rather than something the collective (administered by the state) does to soften any misfortune that hits any of its members?

Mathematically, if you sell insurance at break even, you're guaranteed to go bankrupt - on an infinite time scale, the "spike" of a random walk martingale (this last word means, it doesn't make a profit) will exceed every level, i.e. it will wipe out any amount of collateral / capital / equity the company might have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_iterated_logarithm

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#232

Post by 20after4 » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 7:59 PM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #203

cool_dude85 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance in general is more heavily regulated than this. There are a few reasons: because society doesn't want these companies racing to the bottom on price and leaving their customers high and dry when the catastrophe does hit, because society finds insurance pricing based on certain personal aspects, such as race, odious, and because the government mandates some types of coverage and they don't want to let insurer…

While it’s certainly accurate insurance is a regulated industry, nothing you listed explains why it’s a good idea to allow government to set or approve rates vs. ameliorating those social concerns through other means.

Because insurance isn't optional. If the law demands insurance then the law must assure equal access to the legally mandated insurance.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#233

Post by s1gsegv » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 8:02 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #155

nneonneo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would definitely mind if the police were following me personally in an airplane…

Did you recently rob a bank or carjack an old lady? If not, I sincerely doubt that anyone would go to the trouble of following you around.

Due to the cost of doing so, right. If the aircraft were suddenly unmanned and significantly cheaper to fly in potentially great quantities, it’s easier to justify doing so “just in case.”

It’s concerning to think that because police have traditionally had tools that were quite powerful in single use to balance out technology limitations of the time, this balance should not be rethought when the usage becomes significantly more efficient.

If you have to get a black van and big dish microphone to surveil someone’s single conversation in the park, it’s going to be employed when there’s already a strong suspicion, seems fair. Now if you’re able to hide a wireless microphone in every tree, computer-transcribe everything that’s said 24/7, and match it with cameras that can capture facial recognition data, you can build a file of everything everyone says in public, just in case you have to find something against them. What’s more, you can have an AI scrutinize every single conversation and sentiment on a scale that is not otherwise possible.

All of this uses the same fundamental rights, but clearly the outcome poses a huge problem.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#234

Post by NewJazz » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 8:02 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #181

steelframe wrote: post #85

I'm not sure the degree to which insurance companies are legally allowed to share information such as aerial photographs with each other. When I worked at Google I knew a developer who was building a prototype service similar to Google Flights, except for auto and home insurance. I don't think that product ever shipped. The dev on that team told me that a key thing they learned while doing the analysis is that the op…

https://www.comparethemarket.com/ is the best known comparison site for insurance in the UK. Is there not an equivalent in the USA?

Each state has its own market.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#235

Post by lazide » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 8:03 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #160

gumby wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason credit card interest rates are regulated: there's an asymmetry in bargaining power. Car prices are not regulated because there are plenty of options for the consumer.

If there is such an asymmetry in bargaining power then why do most people pay less than the statutory maximum? If there are multiple insurance companies, how is it not the consumer who has the bargaining power, since they can just take the lowest price? The actual reason is that some consumers are extremely high risk, the market rate for those consumers is correspondingly extreme, and then they whine to legislators t…

Eh, or without regulation when people switch risk categories due to a loss they get completely screwed because no company will insure them anymore. At which point, there is strong incentive to only claim the most outrageously bad losses, and for people to only actually get insurance if they have real reason to suspect a loss that is non obvious to others.

It’s a market type that is fundamentally messy and prone to abusive behavior by both sides.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#236

Post by knallfrosch » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 8:06 PM UTC

bvan wrote: post #92

Insurance works on the basis of (a) quantifying risk and (b) charging fairly for the protection. In the long-term, getting better at (a) and consequently, (b), is in everybody’s interest. For far too long, certain risk covers have been under-charged. At the end of the day, difficulty in finding affordable insurance, or any insurance at all, tells you something about the level of risk and the ability of insurers to ch…

Parts of America are becoming uninsurable Blame growth in hazardous areas, climate change and bad policy https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/09/21/parts-of-...

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#237

Post by idontpost » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 8:07 PM UTC

username332211 wrote: post #194

neilv wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is basic insurance for ordinary people a for-profit business at all, rather than something the collective (administered by the state) does to soften any misfortune that hits any of its members?

If you do that, you must also regulate the sort of vehicles ordinary people can buy and the sort of homes they can own. After all, we can't have the community suffer an unsustainable loss because some guy earned too much money and selfishly bought a Camaro. So, obviously the collective should create a list of cheap and economical cars ordinary people are allowed to buy. If that doesn't feel right to you, remember, th…

[dead]

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#238

Post by zen928 » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 8:07 PM UTC

username332211 wrote: post #194

neilv wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is basic insurance for ordinary people a for-profit business at all, rather than something the collective (administered by the state) does to soften any misfortune that hits any of its members?

If you do that, you must also regulate the sort of vehicles ordinary people can buy and the sort of homes they can own. After all, we can't have the community suffer an unsustainable loss because some guy earned too much money and selfishly bought a Camaro. So, obviously the collective should create a list of cheap and economical cars ordinary people are allowed to buy. If that doesn't feel right to you, remember, th…

> you must also regulate the sort of vehicles ordinary people can buy and the sort of homes they can own.

Yep, we already do that. Vehicles and houses have to conform to a set of standards that provide security and safety measures for others, e.g. "Street legal" car restrictions, fire hazard safety requirements and building permit regulations and state codes that adhere to city guidelines, etc. Might need to include a few more talking points from the political pundit you're regurgitating views from for a better argument.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#239

Post by nichohel » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 8:08 PM UTC

neilv wrote: post #161

trogdor wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are insurance rates regulated by the government? I understand that the state has a strong interest in ensuring that insurance companies are adequately capitalized, but I don’t understand the state interest in directly regulating premium prices. (Or is that not what you are referring to?)

Why is basic insurance for ordinary people a for-profit business at all, rather than something the collective (administered by the state) does to soften any misfortune that hits any of its members?

Also, fraud.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#240

Post by supertrope » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 8:10 PM UTC

giantrobot wrote: post #224

xyst wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that’s because the insurance model is not based on individual performance but based on a collection of data points. Insurance will jack up the renewal rates for everyone because there are increased number of accidents in your zip code or area. Cars are more expensive now. Often adjusters just declare vehicles no longer worth the repair. Some vehicles if they get dented will result in a shit ton of work to get it repa…

> You are paying for the insurance companies increased risk because the people around you can’t drive worth shit. Insurance companies are supposed to be creating risk pools. If everyone in my zip code drives like shit the insurance company should be splitting them up into pools with better drivers from other areas. There's no reason at all to pool everyone geographically. If the insurance company can't manage risk po…

You can lobby your politicians to mandate coarser rating territories. This will ironically increase premiums more than they otherwise would be. Just like banning credit, gender, homeownership, occupation, etc.