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What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

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Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#231

Post by throw7 »

stephenhuey wrote: post #29
margalabargala wrote: post #3

If you read this article looking for new or surprising insight, you won't find it. It is not new information that Boeing started a rapid decline shortly after the McDonnell Douglas merger, and it will be unsurprising to you to hear that shortly afterwards, Boeing began abusing its most senior employees into leaving. What this article offers is new detail into exactly how Boeing has gone about cannibalizing itself. Th…

I learned some things reading this article from 2 days ago: Boeing’s Dead Whistleblower Spoke the Truth https://www.thefp.com/p/boeings-dead-whistleblower-spoke-the... The Free Press

On the other hand... I can imagine after testifying, the feeling that one had done all one could do. That it was finished and it was his time.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#232

Post by araes »

mschuster91 wrote: post #113
thatguy0900 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading the story of ebay execs harassing a random completely unimportant couple, to the point of repeatedly mailing them threatening or disgusting packages, I can't discredit killing a witness for a real tangible reason.

Oh yeah, I remember that one [1]. One of the bastards got five years in prison - one of the very very few exceptions to my general line of calling for prison abolishment. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/29/ebay-exec...

Prefaced with, while horrifying, that may also have been one of the funnier corporate stories I've read in the last several years. Note, horrifying from the Steiner's perspective. People with private jets who can fly across America to leave bloody masks on your porch.

Yet, it's cartooonishly preposterous. Seven people charged, seven guilty pleas, and the heads of Security and "Resiliency"? They flew across the country to do the equivalent of college harassment and B&E ... in a residential garage? Baugh worked for the CIA? His wife works for the CIA? Running Charlie's Angels as the security team (sorry, Jim's Angels)? Mandatory pop culture videos? What did I just read?

Unfortunately, it always has a Nelson response, no matter how funny. "Aww, those are the people who run corporate America..." They run my economy.

NYT Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20201213125301/https://www.nytim...

WP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#233

Post by proc0 »

margalabargala wrote: post #8
proc0 wrote: post #5

> Swampy believed relying on mechanics to self-inspect their work was not only insane but illegal This sounds like the changes that have taken place in the software industry in the past 10-20 years. Engineers are meant to do much more than engineering, including testing their own software, managing project timelines, etc., however with software nobody dies, you just get crappy software that constantly breaks and need…

> however with software nobody dies The MCAS issue which crashed two Boeing planes was a software hack.

I meant software only products like websites, apps, games, etc., but it should be clarified, good point.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#234

Post by constantcrying »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #26
margalabargala wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stock price gains. Fire all the longest-tenured, highest-salaried employees. Now you have a company that appears to look similar but with millions of dollars fewer per year in headcount expenses. Boeing's stock price went up 10x in the time frame covered by the article. The people responsible for gutting the company have cashed out.

>Boeing's stock price went up 10x in the time frame covered by the article. The people responsible for gutting the company have cashed out. Why does the stock market reward idiot shit like this? I've seen the same whit a a large US semiconductor company. In the 2008 crunch, the fired the most tenured employees and offshored the work abroad. Granted, the company didn't fail, their stock went up and now it's 5-7x that…

>Why does the stock market reward idiot shit like this?

Because Boeing is in an absolutely unique position where they are part of a duopoly in a market where demand for airplanes massively outstrips supply. Boeing's customers have no alternative and Boeing will be selling them planes and the market knows that.

Additionally the stock market can only look a tangible results. There is no measure of "engineering competency" which you could track year over year, which makes these mistakes hard to realize unless you are inside the system.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#235

Post by pdonis »

throw7 wrote: post #231
stephenhuey wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned some things reading this article from 2 days ago: Boeing’s Dead Whistleblower Spoke the Truth https://www.thefp.com/p/boeings-dead-whistleblower-spoke-the... The Free Press

On the other hand... I can imagine after testifying, the feeling that one had done all one could do. That it was finished and it was his time.

But he wasn't finished testifying. He was found dead on the morning of what was supposed to be his final day of deposition.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#236

Post by oglop »

proc0 wrote: post #5

> Swampy believed relying on mechanics to self-inspect their work was not only insane but illegal This sounds like the changes that have taken place in the software industry in the past 10-20 years. Engineers are meant to do much more than engineering, including testing their own software, managing project timelines, etc., however with software nobody dies, you just get crappy software that constantly breaks and need…

100% agree.

Had a manager that does this try and tell the Challenger story once. He had the lessons of the report exactly backwards. Instead of the managers creating an environment of risk by not understanding the engineering and overriding the engineers, he claimed it was engineers not listening to or informing managers properly.

It was wild to me to sit there and hear this manager say the exact wrong lesson of that tragedy.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#238

Post by constantcrying »

forgotmyinfo wrote: post #21
iaoat2d wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the lengths to which they went to ensure all prior institutional knowledge regarding how to properly build a plane was systematically destroyed." why do this intentionally?

Y'all're gonna hate this, but financialization and the relentless pursuit of profits. Every time this stuff happens, people ask why, and it's because of greed. When you focus on making money above all else, this is what happens. It's not a mystery.

No. Under nearly any other circumstance a company like Boeing would simply go under.

If a car manufacturer pulled something like this they either have to fix it really fast or have to face severe financial consequences.

You have to realize that Boeing's customers have no alternative. They will be buying planes from Boeing.

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#239

Post by ladzoppelin »

zer00eyz wrote: post #208
ladzoppelin wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying your wrong but who were the faulty suppliers for all these claims? Is it possible things would start unraveling for something much bigger than it already has? The other motive would also be to send a message which it definitely did. I find it weird that he would ruin the chance of future whistle blowers coming forward by doing this the day after the court appearance, its strange.

Right... defamation is a good analog for this. Its under AIR21... This case was him suing Boeing for money. The claim was that his whistleblowing was the reason he didn't get promoted and was forced to retire early. Thats whistleblowing past tense, the FAA already said the things he was whistleblowing on were in fact true, and Boeing was at fault. He had lost this case once, but his lawyers felt that he could win thi…

Its not opening but I appreciate you adding other info to the conversation. Do you think as the trial proceeds we will gain new information?

Re: What Boeing did to all the guys who remember how to build a plane

#240

Post by rqtwteye »

Analemma_ wrote: post #99
hughesjj wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame index funds. Pump the % gain, index funds buy it up because it looks like a better ROI. Abuse that by doing short term shit and ride the wave of self fulfilling prophecy by the index funds buying into it (amplifying noise into a signal) and leave retail/workers holding the bags. I get that statistically DIY'ing your portfolio will almost always lead to worse returns but I really do wish I could exclude certai…

I don't think the timing adds up for this explanation. Friedman introduced the shareholder value doctrine in 1970, and Jack Welch's Pierre Hotel speech that kicked off the era of slash-and-burn management was in 1981. Meanwhile, index funds were a tiny fraction of assets under management until well into the 2000s.

I am starting to believe more and more that the shareholder value movement has done enormous damage to the social fabric. It basically declares that the only stakeholders of an economy are owners. Anybody else doesn’t count. If this doesn’t change, then progress in AI and robotics will lead to a very dystopian society with a few haves and many have nots.
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