Live data from Hacker News

macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

appleinsider.com

231–240 of 271 posts

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#231
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please name a competitor with better laptop hardware (I assume your workplace provided you with a laptop). My workplace provides me with a MacBook yes. I honestly prefer using my 5 year old Dell G5. I absolutely hate MacBook screen. It's reflexive, whereas I very much favor the matte finish of basically every other manufacturer. Fan noise for me is essentially irrelevant. Not that my Dell makes that much noise anyw…

You sound a lot like me. I think macOS has the worst window management of any major OS especially for power users. It's so bad that buying a half dozen third party apps to "fix" the UX disaster that is macOS has basically been normalized. I don't like any touchpad so even if a MacBook touchpad is better it's still just the best worst method for mouse input. I think Apple makes nice hardware though. But I also work do…

Precisely.

I use it undocked very rarely, to the point that those hardware advantages are irrelevant.

The downsides are still there when docked however (the horrible glossy screen and the awful OS I have to handle).

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. Have been using a MBP for almost three years now at work (after using Windows machines for a couple of decades), and I can see how laughable many of the design decisions in macOS are (though I highly doubt they were deliberate 'decisions' at all), and I still fail to understand why people use them over Windows or Linux (sure, great hardware, mostly). It's probably fine as a consumer device, but for…

What do you not like about finder?

Oh ... Where to begin. I can write an essay on it, but just to name a few:

1. There's a button on my M3 Mac keyboard that says 'delete'. It deletes stuff everywhere else, but welcome to Finder, this simple button doesn't delete a file or a folder. They thought giving it a two/three keys combination was a better idea.

2. Similarly, they thought you rename file/folders more often in a day than you open them. Why else would they make you press two keys to open one, and the most common single button in the world to open files (Enter/return) to rename one instead?

3. No 'Cut' (I know the alternatives). One might find it surprising but there are fans that defend even this move - they say it's because this is more "intuitive". You only copy everything first and only at the time of pasting you decide whether you want to move it or copy it. I say, if that's really the case, why does every other app and Editor (including the ones made by Apple) have a Cut option? Why don't we always follow this more intuitive method of "copying" first and then pressing the Option button while pasting. Let's remove Cut from everything and see how intuitive people find it.

4. By default, the Finder doesn't even tell you where you are. That's a basic requirement from a File Manager. Sure, fiddle with the settings and at some place you'll find an option to kind of enable that.

5. No option to quickly create a text/other file in a given folder. If you've struggled enough and enabled the view where you're able to see where you are at the moment, there's a _chance_ you'd also see that from that view you can actually go to Terminal directly in that folder. Go there, and type `touch ` to create a file in that folder.

6. You got a full path to go to somewhere on the disk. You quickly open Finder. Oh, the default view doesn't even have a place to paste it and hit Enter. Who could have thought to hide it? Same problem with the native 'File Open' dialog that's used by all the other apps on the system. Even if you have the full file path, unless you go to settings you won't find a way to go to that file directly.

7. No easy (if at all) way to persistently map a network drive that automatically remaps when the network drive is available. You have to keep connecting to the SMB server again and again.

8. Side bar folder shortcuts get removed when the folder is deleted and recreated for any reason. You have to recreate them. Not sure who made all these decisions or if they were even thought about.

9. No straight way to even 'Refresh' the files in a folder. Try going out and in, closing and reopening Finder and just 'hope' that it will update and show the newly created files or changed file properties outside. Many times it just doesn't.

10. 'Get Info' allows you to also 'Set' (a lot of) Info. This is UX 101. They could have just named it `Properties` instead.

11. Hell, you can't even maximize this app window by double clicking on the Title bar, unlike for example another Apple made app 'App Store'. No consistency.

12. In List view there's no padding, I can't even find a place where I can right click and paste a previously copied file in the 'current folder', without it hitting a subfolder and pasting the files into that instead (assuming the folder has many folders inside). I'm surprised no one found it in internal user testing.

These are just off top of my head, I'm sure I can find more if I spend some time. There might be involved solutions to these, but there's no way we can call this an 'intuitive' interface. And this is just one application in the whole Operation System.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#233
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a modern Dell supported 4K display supporting USB-C to USB-C connection. macOS shows black screen for a few seconds before being able to show anything. Also using the 4K monitor with an actual 4K resolution makes everything very slow, so I just use it with lower resolutions :|. Never saw such issues on even entry level Windows laptops.

Is it macOS or the monitor not being responsive? Also, if it's slow your laptop might be too old to properly support 4K or you might have misconfigured something. At least Dell supports their hardware: have you tried updating the monitor firmware or submitting a report?

It's the built-in mac display that goes blank along with the external monitor. On my Intel 2019 MBP it was very slow (many seconds), on this new M3 it's much shorter but still more than a decent Windows laptop which is almost instant.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#234
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you not like about finder?

Enter to rename rather than open is one of the dumbest UX decisions ever made in a file manager. And then doubling down by not allowing any key remaps at all so you're stuck with it.

Oh, then you were probably not pissed enough to search more thoroughly. :) Fortunately, there's a godsend man who wrote a utility called 'PresButan' - https://briankendall.net/presButan/index.htm . Doesn't always auto launch with the OS start for some reason, but works great when it's running and fixes this madness.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you not like about finder?

Oh ... Where to begin. I can write an essay on it, but just to name a few: 1. There's a button on my M3 Mac keyboard that says 'delete'. It deletes stuff everywhere else, but welcome to Finder, this simple button doesn't delete a file or a folder. They thought giving it a two/three keys combination was a better idea. 2. Similarly, they thought you rename file/folders more often in a day than you open them. Why else w…

> There's a button on my M3 Mac keyboard that says 'delete'. It deletes stuff everywhere else, but welcome to Finder, this simple button doesn't delete a file or a folder. They thought giving it a two/three keys combination was a better idea.

It would be pretty darn annoying if an accidental key press could just delete a file!

> No 'Cut' (I know the alternatives). One might find it surprising but there are fans that defend even this move - they say it's because this is more "intuitive". You only copy everything first and only at the time of pasting you decide whether you want to move it or copy it. I say, if that's really the case, why does every other app and Editor (including the ones made by Apple) have a Cut option? Why don't we always follow this more intuitive method of "copying" first and then pressing the Option button while pasting. Let's remove Cut from everything and see how intuitive people find it.

The problem is, where does a file go in between the time you cut and you paste? If you accidentally copy something else to your clipboard, do you loose the entire file? Does the file appear in the Trash or is it deleted permanently?

You could argue that the same problem exists for non-file content (like text) which Apple allows you to cut. I think files and folders are a bigger deal, though. There's a practical limit to how much you can highlight. A folder might contain your entire life's work. (Yes, hopefully you have backups, but better to not reach that point.)

> By default, the Finder doesn't even tell you where you are. That's a basic requirement from a File Manager. Sure, fiddle with the settings and at some place you'll find an option to kind of enable that.

`View` → `Show Path Bar`? I agree it should be enabled by default but it's so easy to change! You can also right click the folder icon at the top of the window, but Apple made this much more difficult beginning in macOS 11.

> You got a full path to go to somewhere on the disk.

I don't think non-developers ever end up in this situation. Those who do can use `Go` → `Go to Folder...`. I realize it's not in the toolbar but it's right in the menu bar.

> In List view there's no padding, I can't even find a place where I can right click and paste a previously copied file in the 'current folder', without it hitting a subfolder and pasting the files into that instead (assuming the folder has many folders inside).

Click the gear in the toolbar → `paste`.

---

I think your other points are valid, and I think the Mac's UX has declined a ton ever since OS X 10.9 in 2013. But I feel quite strongly the above complaints are merely different from other operating systems (and thus what you are used to), not actually worse.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#237
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find that quote in your link. I can't find any mention of the word "deprecated" or "2012". Did you send the wrong link?

My quote is from the 5th paragraph of the posted article. I suggest the Oracle blog as an alternative. I thought it was clear, but I have replaced the "this" in my comment anyway.

Aha, sorry, I totally misunderstood the meaning of your comment.

In that case, I 100% agree with you, the Oracle article seems much better than the Apple Insider article.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it will soon be once the EU DMA changes require support for alternative browser engines. Was this change an attempt to lock down too wide permissions a JIT might set up and perhaps really intended for iOS instead of macOS?

I don't think the EU DMA changes will require that JIT is supported. Supporting alternative browser engines is something that can be done perfectly without JIT.

Nope it cannot. If Apple is using JIT, which massively speeds up JS, and is denying it to competitors, then Apple is giving itself an unfair advantage and is breaking the DMA.

And you know, you’re one web search away from finding the page where Apple directly mentions access to a JIT for alternative browsers: https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engi...

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#239
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please name a competitor with better laptop hardware (I assume your workplace provided you with a laptop). My workplace provides me with a MacBook yes. I honestly prefer using my 5 year old Dell G5. I absolutely hate MacBook screen. It's reflexive, whereas I very much favor the matte finish of basically every other manufacturer. Fan noise for me is essentially irrelevant. Not that my Dell makes that much noise anyw…

You sound a lot like me. I think macOS has the worst window management of any major OS especially for power users. It's so bad that buying a half dozen third party apps to "fix" the UX disaster that is macOS has basically been normalized. I don't like any touchpad so even if a MacBook touchpad is better it's still just the best worst method for mouse input. I think Apple makes nice hardware though. But I also work do…

> I think macOS has the worst window management of any major OS especially for power users.

Do you use full screen windows ?

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always install Linux on your Macbook Pro. Personally I prefer MacOS though.

Why? Macos is already a unix os.

Everyone says this until they're spending their whole weekend working around some weird tiny differences in between a GNU tool and something that comes with OSX or homebrew or something.

And when you finally get it working you have the "satisfaction" of knowing you bought NOTHING of value with all that wasted time -- just the opportunity to be able to use FaceTime on the same laptop you develop on, or something.

If you're looking for a UNIXy nice desktop OS and that's the entirety of your requirement, mac OS is great.

If your REAL use case isn't just generic hanging around, but specifically developing/maintaining an app that runs on linux in production, then you're only hurting yourself the more you introduce mac or windows into the dev process. Nothing good can come of it. Best case you get lucky and you don't run into any issues... and also reap no real benefits because a linux desktop nowadays works fine, it's not the year 2000.

Post reply on HN