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Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

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Re: Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a bad take at all. The very latest and greatest version of Outlook, has broken Search. Not in a subtle way, no, as in the "remove focus from the goddamn text box after you've typed a couple of characters" kind of broken. I've had to remove and re-add accounts to fix Outlook issues more than all other email client issues combined. This is especially prevalent with the mobile versions. Do you know ho…

Agreed. Outlook native gets extremely confused when the desktop resolution/scaling changes. It also uses as an old version of IE/Trident (?!) to render HTML e-mails, which is very painful to work with when trying to build rich e-mail notifications.

IIRC it's even worse. It's not Trident, but Word's HTML renderer.

Re: Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is largely how I've operated for years with Google Voice: doing all of my SMS/MMS messaging and outbound calls (inbound, not so much) from the voice.google.com web app in my desktop browser. If my life circumstances were a bit different, I could happily live without a phone and minutes+data plan. As it is, my wife would not approve... My primary number has been a Google Voice number for a decade, and when I do u…

Just in case others are curious: NOTE: Google Voice only works for personal Google Accounts in the US and Google Workspace accounts in select markets. Text messaging is not supported in all markets.

They also killed the forwarding of SMS years ago, so when you get an SMS you have to get it through the Voice app

Re: Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

#233
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Outlook native gets extremely confused when the desktop resolution/scaling changes. It also uses as an old version of IE/Trident (?!) to render HTML e-mails, which is very painful to work with when trying to build rich e-mail notifications.

IIRC it's even worse. It's not Trident, but Word's HTML renderer.

Scary if true!

Re: Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

#234

So, this is the second time a "run your Android apps on Windows" initiative fizzles out: before WSA (which was Amazon-centric), there was a late-2020 "Your Phone" feature that (briefly) allowed Samsung apps on Windows desktops. Not sure if this means anything other than "phone apps run best on, well, a phone", especially since I can't think of anything from my phone that I would truly like on my desktop, other than i…

WSA wasn't intended for calls or messaging. It was intended to allow developers who had developed apps for the Fire tablets to also provide or sell the apps on Windows.

It was also an alternative way for Android developers to write and test code on Windows. You could edit/deploy faster to WSA than to an Android emulator. And WSA apps are resizable, which is handy for seeing how well your code could handle different Android layouts.

The drawback was that WSA did not have any Google Play services. So no map, no Android push notifications, etc. That could have been addressed if Google wanted to license all of the Play bits.

Re: Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah new teams is much less of an annoyance in terms of change as it was already a slow web app and users don't really expect much from it. And the UI didn't change at all. They bogged it down with too many features and now they're trying to scrape it up by having a slightly more optimised framework, which is basically still exactly the same, it's now just based on edge instead of chrome which we all know are really…

If Apple can have feature parity between a Mac-ass Mac app and a Web app, why can't Microsoft? Why does Microsoft need to reduce its feature set to the lowest common denominator? I'm of course talking of Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.

On the one side: Microsoft seems to be trying to work towards feature parity with New Outlook but its an application being built in the open with the most agile of agile and there's no clear time horizon of when that parity will happen. Every month or so there's new features and more feature parity (it likes to tell you that, too).

On the other side: Old Outlook grew to be an organic mess of COM components, duct tape, and glitter. Some of those COM components that people think of as "native functionality" was second-party and third-party components written by a weird grab bag of companies, including some that no longer exist. Expecting full feature parity from Outlook sounds to me like an impossible task, especially because how can Microsoft know all those third-party components? It almost seems like a case where a new brand might have been better, but it's also hard to blame Microsoft with realizing that they have a lot to lose if they kill the Outlook brand.

(I'm willing to bet S/MIME was based on fragile old IE code. I'm somewhat happy in New Outlook now, but I find I keep having to switch to Old Outlook for silly "required" corporate Add-Ins that use old APIs and haven't upgraded yet/give the impression that they might not upgrade ever.)

Re: Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't know how they plan to shaft business users with that. It's so slow. I noticed recently that Microsoft relented and soon starts introducing CoPilot features into old outlook (or 'real' or 'full' outlook as people are calling it at work). Previously it was coupled to 'new' outlook only to promote adoption. But it really sees a lot of pushback from users. I hope this will continue into not canning the real…

> I noticed recently that Microsoft relented and soon starts introducing CoPilot features into old outlook (or 'real' or 'full' outlook as people are calling it at work). I thought they were done developing the old outlook since they started hacking it instead of doing things properly. For example, in the rounded corner update for the old outlook, they started drawing black squares over message pane during resizing,…

I'd assume that would probably be more that "CoPilot all-the-things" took priority over "leave Outlook in maintenance-only mode".

Even the "round all the corners" changes seemed mostly "free" from component library upgrades from changes in other Office and Windows apps and components shared with "New Outlook" (on the one side: people keep assuming New Outlook is a bloated web app, especially because it has a lot of UI consistency with Outlook.com now, but there's a lot of evidence it is more complicated that just a web app; on the other side: a lot of those painting problems especially during resizing relate to Old Outlook has been partly "a web app" for a long time; hybrids apps are hybrid).

Re: Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

#238

This is kind of weird since much of the tech is shared with WSL. It also makes me question the future of WSL, though that would be insane to deprecate given it has worked miracles for rehabilitating Microsoft‘s image and Windows’ usability.

WSL1, which no one should use right now, may and should be deprecated. However, WSL2 should not go away since it has completely transformed the dev experience for the better.

Re: Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy which works for any Android, not just Samsung

Unfortunately a non-starter since it requires USB Debugging Mode, which these days most programs if they see it will refuse to run.

I have never in my life seen an app that cared about adb being enabled. I'm willing to believe that you've encountered them, but I'm gonna question "most programs".

Re: Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android (WSA)

#240
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would have been WSL1, right? As in, the thing that tried to implement Linux syscall interfaces on top of the Windows kernel? The current thing (WSL2) is "just" a VM (with lots of work to make it work nicer)…

> As in, the thing that tried to implement Linux syscall interfaces on top of the Windows kernel? It's really funny, NT was supposed to be great at three things: - be easily ported to different hardware architectures, which then never actually became relevant (and nowadays macOS is the best example for actual architecture migrations!) - have a much more sophisticated and elaborate security model than those filthy uni…

> - be easily ported to different hardware architectures, which then never actually became relevant

Commercially relevant, perhaps, but it has remained technically relevant: The NT Kernel has historically operated on lots of different hardware architectures and continues to run on a small variety today. The ARM port is still active and a living branch even if total hardware sales are fewer than projected and Microsoft ceded most of that hardware space commercially when they gave up on Phones.

> - have a much more sophisticated and elaborate security model than those filthy unices (and now we're getting sudo on Windows, because 30 years later, it's still too complicated for anyone to use as intended)

That "sudo for windows" still leverages the elaborate Windows ACL model. It's not like they are also porting Linux kernel security on top of Windows. They just realized that both "RunAs.exe" and PowerShell's "Start-Process" have more complicated CLIs than necessary for simple UAC cases and decided to copy the CLI arguments of a well known CLI.

> - allow fluid switching between different userlands, be it win32, OS/2 (RIP), Unix (RIP), and anything else you could want in the future! (except no, you're getting VMs now)

Turns out users don't actually want to switch userlands on the fly and when they do VMs feel more right as an abstraction?

More (RIP) than OS/2 or the various attempts at POSIX userlands, Windows 8 actually tried to deliver a truly modern userland as a wholesale new experience, failed spectacularly. Switching was fluid and felt good if you enjoyed the new userland (which had some extraordinary, noticeable benefits in bootup and power/battery usage and other things). Coordination between the two userlands got really good in 8.1. The final lessons that seemed to come from Windows 8 was to never try that again because users hated it and didn't understand it. (I still lament how much of "didn't understand it" was so much more of a failure of education and PR and marketing and incidentals more than technical problems. There was some great technical appeal of a chance to move from win32 to a userland that was greener [both as in pastures and ecologically].)

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