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The case against caffeine

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Re: The case against caffeine

#231

Post by nunez »

I spontaneously quit caffeine in December when my local coffee roaster produced a decaf single origin that tasted identical to the caffeinated thing. (8oz of decaf coffee contains 7mg of caffeine vs 140mg in caffeinated coffee).

I didn't feel the transformative effects that many blog about, but I definitely felt how tired I _really_ was.

I started napping way more during the day than before, and I'd fall asleep within ten minutes or so on most nights once I hit the bed. (I had been doing CBTi for a week or two up to the time that I quit. I don't have sleep apnea.)

When I drink caffeinated coffee now (extremely rarely), I definitely feel it and definitely crash later in the day as a result. (Caffeine lasts about six hours in your system before its metabolized away.)

What I realized pretty quickly into doing this is that (a) caffeinated coffee is probably the only drug that is nearly universally socially acceptable because (b) nearly everyone is terribly sleep deprived.

It's a real shame that modern (Western) society is designed from the top-down to sweep mental and physical health under the rug in the name of "efficiency". Coffee's just one unfortunate side effect of that.

Also, it is really hard to get good decaf drip coffee but, surprisingly, much easier to get decaf espresso. I'm guessing this is because decaf versions of coffee-based drinks (lattes, flat whites, fraps) is more popular.

Re: The case against caffeine

#232

Post by grecy »

teapot7 wrote: post #227
thomasahle wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it doesn't have the same impact on everyone's body. I'm one of those that seem able to drink lots of coffee even at 6 or 8pm and still fall fast asleep. I also don't feel any different during the day whether I drink it or not. Though I usually still drink it, for various reasons like taste, warmth and social aspects. People always want to find simple universal dietary rules.

Likewise. I can happily drink coffee at bedtime. I never experience a "coffee rush". A yoga instructor friend once told me "You have a sluggish metabolism". I cannot deny it.

Huh. I have a very fast metabolism and coffee greatly affects me. Even one cup and I get the sweats, my heart will beat funny and I get anxious and a bit hyper for a while before a crash later in the day.

I wonder if metabolism speed really is an indicator of caffeine "impact".

Re: The case against caffeine

#233

Post by nunez »

loeg wrote: post #189
ydant wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, my wife and I also sit and drink coffee in the morning together (although not as a consistent daily ritual). Ours is just decaf. (good) Decaf can taste very good. I've certainly had decaf that was better than most caffeinated coffee I've had. But it's harder to find serious attempts at decaf roasts, sadly. I can also say that after quitting caffeine (8-9 months ago) my sleep improved dramatically…

Decaf can taste ok but even really good decaf pales in comparison to caf, unfortunately. The process of getting the caffeine out is just inherently harmful to the flavor. I think moderation is the key for most people. Drink at most a moderate amount of coffee once in the morning; don't drink it throughout the day.

Hard disagree. Look into swiss-method decafs if you haven't already. High-flavor decaf exists; I make it daily!

Re: The case against caffeine

#234

Post by heelix »

tayo42 wrote: post #108
_ink_ wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I have the same feeling about ADHD. I would like to go decaf, I really do. Like higher blood pressure is already enough reason for me for quitting it. But when I don't drink caffeine, I cannot focus on anything anymore. Now I haven't been tested for ADHD so I don't have access to real ADHD meds. But those come with side effects as well, so I might just stay with caffeine.

Did you quit long enough that you got through the withdrawal? Caffeine withdrawal is pretty bad, and you'll probably have trouble thinking. The first time I quit cold turkey, I felt dumb. Couldn't think clearly or focus until I got past it.

One Christmas, the extended family, most of us caffeine junkies were all at my parent's home. By the second or third day, everyone had headaches and just felt terrible. My brother-in-law wandered into the kitchen to put on a fresh pot of coffee and discovered my Mom was serving everyone decaf. I think the entire clan picked up and headed to the nearest coffee shop within minutes of that discovery.

Re: The case against caffeine

#235

Post by nunez »

OliveMate wrote: post #46

I've been on the decaf wagon for a good few years now, I can't say it helped me out with anxiety or productivity but I can echo the sentiment that I can sleep within minutes. Also not relying on caffeine to keep me going pretty much forces me to sleep at a reasonable time. The hardest thing about giving up caffeine has to be the immediate effects. Your body takes it as a massive shock and you're stuck with what feels…

a cup of decaf has less caffeine than an ounce of dark chocolate. lots of things have caffeine; it's a naturally-occurring substance.

i also got headaches when i quit caf coffee, though i didn't realize that it was because of that at the time.

Re: The case against caffeine

#236

Post by therealdrag0 »

nunez wrote: post #231

I spontaneously quit caffeine in December when my local coffee roaster produced a decaf single origin that tasted identical to the caffeinated thing. (8oz of decaf coffee contains 7mg of caffeine vs 140mg in caffeinated coffee). I didn't feel the transformative effects that many blog about, but I definitely felt how tired I _really_ was. I started napping way more during the day than before, and I'd fall asleep withi…

Decaf beans lose their freshness much faster than caf. I’ve found even with high quality roasters it’s 50/50 chance it arrives stale or it will be within So what I do now is

1. Mount Hagen decaf instant coffee. High quality instant I think of as “a different drink” than typically brewed coffee.

2. Cometeer decaf coffee. It’s speciality coffee premade into concentrates. Easily the best “reliable” method of decaf I’ve found. Has more of an espresso flavor to it, but better than any alternative I’ve tried.

Re: The case against caffeine

#237

Post by timka »

weeksie wrote: post #35

Tangental but as someone who used to have sleep issues but has no intention of ditching coffee, taking Magnesium L-Threonate has utterly transformed the quality of my sleep. Used to wake up a ton in the night, take forever to get to sleep, etc. and now I sleep extremely well and if I'm up in the night it doesn't take me long to get back to sleep.

Is it any better than magnesium citrate?

Re: The case against caffeine

#238

Post by robertlutece »

Aeolun wrote: post #76
bheadmaster wrote: post #50

As a person with willpower/focus issues, I've found caffeine to be a godsend in college. I've started using so much I've switched to caffeine pills to save money. At first I was taking 200mg in the morning to wake up, 100mg every couple of hours to get me through the lectures, and another 200mg at home to study. It went well, and I became one of the best students in my class, but my anxiety went over the roof. I beca…

I think the benefit of coffee over pills is that you actually need to get/make it, then drink it, which acts as a natural limit to intake (most people will feel sick after drinking several coffees)

Eat all the junk food you want as long as you cook it yourself. — Michael Pollan

Re: The case against caffeine

#239

Post by bheadmaster »

Sammi wrote: post #224
Aeolun wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the benefit of coffee over pills is that you actually need to get/make it, then drink it, which acts as a natural limit to intake (most people will feel sick after drinking several coffees)

Yeah I can't defend the existence of caffeine pills. They're actually dangerous and you could just drink coffee instead.

Almost every pharmacy drug is dangerous if you take too much of it.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that they shouldn't exist. They're quite useful in certain circumstances.

Re: The case against caffeine

#240

Post by graemep »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #218
graemep wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would flip that round and ask why people need to feel they have to talk about overcoming any personal problem on social media? Particular as I see it most often on LinkedIn which is supposed to be for business, and mostly used for business. Is it an appropriate venue to discuss something as personal as overcoming an addiction? The other thing is that there is a strong element of trying to encourage others to do the…

> I would flip that round and ask why people need to feel they have to talk about overcoming any personal problem on social media? Particular as I see it most often on LinkedIn which is supposed to be for business, and mostly used for business. Is it an appropriate venue to discuss something as personal as overcoming an addiction? I think that's just like anything else: either for kicks or for clicks. Give people an…

> To me the more interesting thing is why people feel compelled to engage, especially so when it comes to substances.

My experience is that people do not. I almost always see these in LinkedIn where I do not respond because I do not think it would be appropriate to do so - any more than it is to discuss it there. People who do respond are uniformly supportive.

I might respond there to a discussion about whether this is something appropriate to post there.

I responded here with this comment because I saw a parallel and this is a more general discussion.

> If I just say "I don't X", some portion of people will undoubtedly hear "and nobody else should either" and get their hackles up.

Again your experience differs from mine. I do see similar comments else where and a simple "I don't do X" is invariably ignored. Even on Facebook! I saw someone say "I do not drink alcohol myself" in a discussion on FB recently and it did not affect the discussion (parents talking about teens drinking) at all and the same with a similar discussion on LinkedIn (although I read that thread less closely). I do see responses when someone makes particular claims, most commonly about vegan diets - e.g. making specific claims about health etc.

I think the responses depend on the audience and the context. If it is made on Twitter by someone widely followed I would expect lots of such responses (not seen anyone say it on Twitter that I can recall).

> It's really just a topic best avoided if you don't want to offend people or risk making them think poorly of you, even if you aren't the one bringing it up. Which seems a little sad.

I think discussing personal issues on social media is a bad idea generally so its no loss.

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