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German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

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Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#231
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it quite disturbing that high taxation is seen as a negative aspect of Europe. after receiving the same services for no or minimal tax i also find it very disturbing that people still think high taxation is necessary.

Where?

In general, if you don't pay taxes, in the listed countries you still can get treatment. It was probably a provocation - I guess?

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you pay ~400 EUR for the public healthcare you make 70k or more. The cost for public healthcare is scaled by income, and is limited around 400 EUR. It's a bit higher now, but I would suspect that the OP is not necessarily talking about the most current values here and is hitting the older limit and therefore earning more than the "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze".

The limit is ~900 € per month, not ~400 €. People frequently forget the employer matching, which at the end comes from your pocket, since it's mandatory. Also Freelancers and self-employed need to pay full contribution of 900 €, not "just" a half.

No the employers contribution doesn't come out of your pocket. The employers contribution comes out of the employers pocket and is the cost of doing business. That's like arguing the rent for the office space or even the warehouse or servers come out of your salary. Your salary is essentially a function of supply and demand and not a function of cost. I mean, if external costs would influence salary we'd see remote workers earn more than on site ones, because employers save on office rent. In reality it's more likely to be that remote workers have a lower salary.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I'm proud of contributing through my taxes so that anybody in need can have the same treatment irrespective of their economic situation." It is a big world my friend. And if millions come to use these services but don't pay in, the services get thinner and thinner. 1 Million Ukrainians came to German. Less than 25% have a job. The rest is financed by the taxpayer. Money, Rent, Health insurance... Edit: It reminds m…

The one I have seen are all young women and kids. They will cause not even a fraction of the health care costs a 70 or 80 year old German generates. I can't find this stat but basically it's exponential, one generates more health care costs in the last ten years of its life than during its entire previous life, on average.

> They will cause not even a fraction of the health care costs a 70 or 80 year old German generates. I can't find this stat but basically it's exponential, one generates more health care costs in the last ten years of its life than during its entire previous life, on average.

I really don't wanna get into this populist debate, which is really annoying lately as it seems to be our biggest issue in the world, but ... the 70-80 years old people (probably) worked in the country, they contributed to their own country, and should be treated with some respect or decency and not just as a cost.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I'm proud of contributing through my taxes so that anybody in need can have the same treatment irrespective of their economic situation." It is a big world my friend. And if millions come to use these services but don't pay in, the services get thinner and thinner. 1 Million Ukrainians came to German. Less than 25% have a job. The rest is financed by the taxpayer. Money, Rent, Health insurance... Edit: It reminds m…

The one I have seen are all young women and kids. They will cause not even a fraction of the health care costs a 70 or 80 year old German generates. I can't find this stat but basically it's exponential, one generates more health care costs in the last ten years of its life than during its entire previous life, on average.

Adding a source to this claim as it is very valid [0]. I cannot find a good overview of the overall demographics of the ukranian refugees other than it is mostly women and children due to the borders being closed to outgoing men. Employment rates will rise as people integrate.

[0] https://www.oecd.org/health/Expenditure-by-disease-age-and-g...

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#235

Finally. Germany combines some of the worst aspects of the US (credit ranking, complicated abortion process, private healthcare if you want decent treatments) with the worst aspects of Europe (low digitalization, high taxation, recursive federalism: within the country and within the EU). A country like the Netherlands has its own issues (mainly housing) but doesn't have the myriad of pain points you can find in Germa…

> private healthcare if you want decent treatments > public healthcare inaccessible

What do you mean? I am not sure what you mean by decent treatments.

> Schufa

There is some change happening there, especially now that the EU Justice Court ruled against credit scoring institutions (they break GDPR, etc.). Very slowly, as usual, but it might happen. (Also the current governement is planning changes.)

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#236

What surprised me about Schufa is that the certificate it provides only states that you didn't have any defaults or delinquencies in Germany. That's quite different from a credit rating in the US sense that you can build up by consistently borrowing and repaying over time. When I moved to Berlin after having lived in London, my Schufa was thus as pristine as possible - simply because I had no German credit history to…

they have many different scores. the main consumer-facing score is what you are describing, which is never used by their customers. for customers (banks,insurances, retail companies etc.) they have scores tailored to their industry (branchenscore), which also includes repaid loans etc. the "basisscore" is pretty much useless, it's only a number given out to consumers.

in case you speak german: i wrote up an article about their scoring some time ago.

in the following section i talk a little bit about the differences between "branchenscores" and the "basisscore": https://onlinekredit.com/schufa-scoring#der-schufa-basisscor...

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I have seen are all young women and kids. They will cause not even a fraction of the health care costs a 70 or 80 year old German generates. I can't find this stat but basically it's exponential, one generates more health care costs in the last ten years of its life than during its entire previous life, on average.

Adding a source to this claim as it is very valid [0]. I cannot find a good overview of the overall demographics of the ukranian refugees other than it is mostly women and children due to the borders being closed to outgoing men. Employment rates will rise as people integrate. [0] https://www.oecd.org/health/Expenditure-by-disease-age-and-g...

In Germany, 75% of Ukrainians don't work. In other EU countries, nearly 80% work. It is a question of the system and incentives.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#238
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not 6 months: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39395329 Yes, Germany has not the same level of health care. Most of the time it’s better than the US. According to studies and data. All sources are not from Germany: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality... https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/18/upshot/best-h... „Germany…

"Not 6 months" I don't care what the internet says. I know from my own experience it is 6 months, at least for some categories. Some sources say 30 days. A joke! I could call the office of my average XYZ doctor now and ask. And it will be 6 months, for sure. "Most of the time it’s better than the US. " The US has a lower live expectancy. Whatever the reasons may be. While this is concerning and not good, as long as y…

Not sure where you live. I (and the people I know, some of them 65+) never had to wait for 6 months - even for surgeries. And I can speak about a decently wide range of categories.

You also mention "at least for some categories", then you mention that "you could call the average XYZ doctor", as it that was applying to all categories. You seem to be generalising out of emotions, to be honest.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High taxes with no matching value behind them That is not the case for Germany. We have - even with all its shortcomings - a decent education system that's largely free and accessible for everyone, a decent healthcare system, a decent public transport system on local, regional and federal system, and a very decent social security network that covers unemployment, pension and elderly care. The US in contrast has nei…

"a decent education system that's largely free and accessible for everyone" I give your Universities a 2-3 (On a scale 1 Top, 5 fail). High schools are getting worse and worse due to the immigrants. So you would want to send your kid to a school without many immigrants, mainly due to language barriers. "a decent healthcare system" Again, I give you a 2-3. More and more people are sucking services, fewer people pay in…

On a scale 1-5, 2 and 3 are exactly the same as or better than "decent". Otherwise the previous poster would have said "they are perfect (=1)".

You're being a bit unfair, to be honest.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#240
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt collection records were definitely a thing 20 years ago. But it sounds like you were dealing with an individual landlord, that's kinda rare. They might be more willing to use common sense and not ask useless documents from someone who just arrived in the country. On the other hand, big property management companies will typically not bother with an application that doesn't tick all the boxes.

Being at CERN helped, it wasn't individuals, but it took about three months, and several attempts.

CERN gives you diplomatic status, by law (at least in Geneva) lessors have to be more accommodating indeed.

On the other hand, most landlords and property management companies absolutely hate applications from people who they know are going to leave after a fixed term contract.

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