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Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

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Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#231

Post by acchow »

lex-lightning wrote: post #198
mdasen wrote: post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

Alright, maybe I’m out of touch, but I don’t think electricity is expensive in California. Even during 115 degree heatwaves in a 70-year-old, 3-bedroom, single-family home. Most I paid was $100 in a month with 2 people with gaming computers working from home. Not everyone has that kind of money, but my point is that most people have cell service and other services which add up to more than electricity costs. That’s f…

Can you share your rate during that period? Makes for a simpler comparison

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#232

Post by thebestmoshe »

billfor wrote: post #215

Has anyone found a good way to control all the features of a heat pump with home automation? I’ve been lookin at Daikin and Mitsubishi but Daikin no longer has an open api and I don’t see much on Mitubishi. It seems like every heat pump comes with its own proprietary remote, and the thermostats and Wi-Fi modules (if available) don’t integrate well.

I’m in the same boat as you. As far as I can tell the only option is something like Sensibo, which uses IR.

I would love to know if there is a better way to do this.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#233

Post by samatman »

seiferteric wrote: post #18

Heat pumps look great and definitely planning on getting one (or many) when my hvac system needs replacing, as well as a heat pump water heater. In NorCal I think they are a no-brainer since it doesn't get that cold to begin with, though I am unsure of what options exist to replace a central AC/furnace system, or if it is better to get several smaller ones throughout your house. Though I have to laugh since it was on…

It's substantially cheaper in energy to cool buildings in the hot parts of the world than it is to heat buildings in the cool parts of the world. I've seen the sort of articles you're referring to, in the US at least, they're thinly-disguised political screeds based on nothing other than the fact that there are more Republicans in the air-conditioned parts of the country.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#234

Post by zbrozek »

TheBlight wrote: post #98
zbrozek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PG&E electric rates are so high that it's operationally more expensive to use a heat pump than a condensing gas system. The heat pump is the better deal practically everywhere else in the contiguous US. I'm installing a heat pump system in PG&E territory as part of a remodel, but pairing it with a large solar system.

Aren't PG&E gas rates substantially higher than their electric rates?

Their price per joule of electricity is higher than per joule of gas by more than the coefficient of performance of a heat pump. You are better off getting thermal energy by burning gas if your energy provider is PG&E.

The story only gets worse once you start carefully accounting for baseline allowances.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#235

Post by acchow »

readingnews wrote: post #86

I just replaced a furnace... everyone I called for a quote would not touch a heat pump with a 20foot pole, or they wanted prices that were 2X what a separate furnace and AC would cost to install. It was very strange. This is the second home where I had this experience.. basically, they really did not want to install it. I ended up going with gas as no local person would install/warranty a heat pump, or, it was priced…

For heat pumps, you actually want to start at the manufacturers. Their website or customer service will help find servicers in your area.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#236

Post by selectodude »

oramit wrote: post #204
nostrademons wrote: post #92

These states really need to get their electric rates down if they want to accelerate adoption of electrification technologies. We were planning to fully electrify our house + transportation in the next few years. PG&E rate hikes and net metering policies put the damper on that. It's now more expensive to fuel a vehicle with electricity than gas, so I'm charging my PHEV at work and using gas for the rest. We have sola…

This is one of my big annoyances as well. Whatever happened to the idea of electricity that was too cheap to measure?

We had a collective meltdown at the idea of nuclear power. I'm currently paying 1.7 cents per kWh in Chicago.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#237

Post by cyberax »

nostromo wrote: post #172
cyberax wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we ever have to replace it, we're going to have to rip open half of the house to remove the heating lines. It'll be a nightmare. Why? Assuming you have a split unit, the lines are just copper pipes and will work with any other heatpump.

Potentially, yes. But when we asked about this we were told that not all heat pumps and head units are compatible -- so we seem to be locked in based on brand, model, and refrigerant type.

> so we seem to be locked in based on brand, model, and refrigerant type.

Oh, that's totally true for newer models. They no longer use simple dry-contacts interfaces, but instead have complicated digital protocols between head units and the compressor.

So quite likely you'll have to replace them all.

But you won't need to open up the walls and replace the piping.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#238

Post by brewdad »

bullfightonmars wrote: post #126
yellow_postit wrote: post #102

moved from oil furnace to heat pump in Seattle (with electric strip backup) Seems like a perfect fit for our weather patterns but was definitely not the most economical option as it kicked off a domino effect of upgrades I wasn't missing before. Its no where near as "cozy" as the oil heat was, and the temperature of airing coming from the vents is significantly lower than the oil system. So the domino of upgrades is…

I did the same this past thing, the best part about it is the reduction in cost for heating from 300+/mo to ~25/mo, The downside is that it was terribly expensive to install, it ran me 40k to install the new heat pump and air handler.

That's why I stuck with a gas furnace and traditional AC when I was looking a few years ago. My heating and cooling costs are only about $800-1000 a year. Spending an extra $8-10k up front in hopes of reducing that figure simply doesn't pencil out. Maybe by the time I'm in the market for a new system it will.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#239

Post by exe34 »

bagels wrote: post #214
mdasen wrote: post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

Right, the heat pump will reduce energy use to maybe 1/3 of a gas furnace, but natural gas is something like 6x cheaper for the same amount of energy, so it is an expensive folly. If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation.

Is there a reason heat pumps use electricity? I would have thought the same approach would work with gas - you only need to burn a fraction of the gas to drive the "fridge" backwards?

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#240

Post by mcbishop »

GoatOfAplomb wrote: post #227
lex-lightning wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, maybe I’m out of touch, but I don’t think electricity is expensive in California. Even during 115 degree heatwaves in a 70-year-old, 3-bedroom, single-family home. Most I paid was $100 in a month with 2 people with gaming computers working from home. Not everyone has that kind of money, but my point is that most people have cell service and other services which add up to more than electricity costs. That’s f…

With the latest PG&E rate hike, my off-peak rate is 33c/kwh and the highest peak rate in 66c. I think the national average is 19c? That seems like a pretty drastic difference to me.

The cost relative to other places is a different consideration than the value per dollar relative to our other expenses. OP is speaking to the latter.
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