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Why you've never been in a plane crash

asteriskmag.com

231–240 of 310 posts

Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#231
post #199

Great article. I agree a lot with the safety culture in commercial aviation and the commitment to investigate and fix root causes. Now can we please apply the same standards to car crashes? The same human errors and bad infrastructure keep getting repeated over and over again. And the problems are getting worse, with SUVs and distracted driving on the rise. See https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/ for a community that…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_... TIL that car fatalities were declining until 2019, and then reversed and are getting worse. What happened in the last five years? Safety features of the cars themselves are improving (emergency braking). Alcohol may be a factor, but why in the last five years? Cars have been big for a while. WFH probably reduced commuting time. Other countries appear to…

One current theory is speed (citation below).

Ironically, heavy traffic is one of the better "safety features" of our automobile transportation system. Since crowded roads are higher-conflict roads, there is a bit of luck in the fact that traffic slows down when it gets crowded. There may be more collisions, but they are less deadly.

Suddenly there is a pandemic, and there are orders of magnitude fewer people on the roads. The number of collisions goes down, but the number of deaths goes up, because all of the collisions are at higher, deadlier speeds.

---

Driving Went Down. Fatalities Went Up. Here's Why. by Charles Marohn

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/1/10/driving-went-d...

Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#232
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

r/fuckcars has members who deflate and slash car tires that belong to vehicles they deem "too big". Do you support that methodology?

The driving majority has members who support buying tall heavy SUVs and pickup trucks "for their family's safety", running over pedestrians, speeding wherever they please, and protesting any kind of traffic calming or enforcement. And then there are the teens who run over cyclists for fun, such as in the case of Andreas Probst. Do you support that methodology?

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Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#233
post #199

Great article. I agree a lot with the safety culture in commercial aviation and the commitment to investigate and fix root causes. Now can we please apply the same standards to car crashes? The same human errors and bad infrastructure keep getting repeated over and over again. And the problems are getting worse, with SUVs and distracted driving on the rise. See https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/ for a community that…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_... TIL that car fatalities were declining until 2019, and then reversed and are getting worse. What happened in the last five years? Safety features of the cars themselves are improving (emergency braking). Alcohol may be a factor, but why in the last five years? Cars have been big for a while. WFH probably reduced commuting time. Other countries appear to…

Note that deaths per vehicle mile traveled (VMT) went up during Covid. Reducing commuting time doesn't necessarily reduce deaths under that metric -- just the opposite! Commuter trips are probably the safest per VMT since they're the most familiar.

There were stories about this effect, even as total collisions went down because of the bigger drop in VMT[1]. I speculated that this was a combination of

a) the above effect (stripping out the safer commuter trips), plus

b) the roads being dominated by people least willing to follow the advice to stay home, which correlates with being anti-social and reckless (mean though that sounds! [2])

My facebook friends suggested

c) the immense stress of coping with the Covid world made the average person less able to concentrate.

I also suspect:

d) traffic enforcement was reduced and drivers gradually started branching out into more aggressive maneuvers as they became aware of this.

Note that people saw their car insurance rates go down during covid because the typical personal policy only cares about accidents per unit time, and rarely adjusts for miles driven.

But I don't know why it hasn't regressed to the pre-covid levels -- probably because WFH hasn't completely reversed.

[1] https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39179818

Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#234

I had the privilege to work at a company that _actually_ had "blameless postmortems." That phrase is easy to say, but when you're on-call and get woken up at 3 in the morning to deal with someone else's mess, let's just say "blameless" isn't _my_ first reaction. However--getting to the root of the issue, allowing everyone involved come up with solutions, and continuously improving the runbook is clearly the best way…

In a team of individuals, the term isn't necessarily "blameless". I'd never hold a weird or accidental outage against you personally. The major question would be: Why did that happen?

However, you're forever going to be the fucking guy causing a database outage on Christmas. You might have had no choice, but fuck you.

All of us have these scars.

But then the question is: Why do we all have these scars? Maybe the system we're dealing with is not as great as it should be? Maybe the localized amount of anger is just a thing leading towards a more systematic problem. Oops, back into the ideas of blameless post-mortems.

Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#235
post #199

Great article. I agree a lot with the safety culture in commercial aviation and the commitment to investigate and fix root causes. Now can we please apply the same standards to car crashes? The same human errors and bad infrastructure keep getting repeated over and over again. And the problems are getting worse, with SUVs and distracted driving on the rise. See https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/ for a community that…

Unpopular opinion, but the truth: We have to drive and it's a right. I agree about the infrastructure issues. Still the modern "safe driving" mentality that people want is at odds with that REALITY.

This could change with public transit, however we don't do this. Even the best countries fall short, and most don't get close. It's actively discouraged in the USA.

Actually, you could argue that people already have to deal with too much BS to drive. The paperwork, rules, and so forth clearly are challenging for people to adhere to. So we throw the majority of people into a situation they aren't equipped for on a daily basis. Then this becomes a major cause of legal efforts, that alienate perfectly good citizens from society and cause us to forfeit our civil rights.

You can claim that people just need to be responsible, or we need to pass some safety law but it's delusional. The truth is we don't have a replacement for this. The average person can't afford to be carted around, and we would need to get to a place where driving was purely recreation.

So we are going to need very good public mass transit options, and IMO some kind of vast network of professional drivers that are more affordable than Uber, for the occasional "cargo trips" or to go "the last mile" (more like 10-50).

Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#236
post #199

Great article. I agree a lot with the safety culture in commercial aviation and the commitment to investigate and fix root causes. Now can we please apply the same standards to car crashes? The same human errors and bad infrastructure keep getting repeated over and over again. And the problems are getting worse, with SUVs and distracted driving on the rise. See https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/ for a community that…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_... TIL that car fatalities were declining until 2019, and then reversed and are getting worse. What happened in the last five years? Safety features of the cars themselves are improving (emergency braking). Alcohol may be a factor, but why in the last five years? Cars have been big for a while. WFH probably reduced commuting time. Other countries appear to…

Uber became more expensive, meaning its reduction in DUIs had ended?

It is much more likely we hit a plateau in improvement and now we are just fluctuating around an equilibrium.

Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#237
post #199

Great article. I agree a lot with the safety culture in commercial aviation and the commitment to investigate and fix root causes. Now can we please apply the same standards to car crashes? The same human errors and bad infrastructure keep getting repeated over and over again. And the problems are getting worse, with SUVs and distracted driving on the rise. See https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/ for a community that…

Unpopular opinion, but the truth: We have to drive and it's a right. I agree about the infrastructure issues. Still the modern "safe driving" mentality that people want is at odds with that REALITY. This could change with public transit, however we don't do this. Even the best countries fall short, and most don't get close. It's actively discouraged in the USA. Actually, you could argue that people already have to de…

Mostly agreed, except for:

> We have to drive and it's a right.

WTF? Driving is by definition a privilege. You're maneuvering a 2-ton murder machine.

We got into the current mess because people treat driving as a right - I have to have parking, I have to get there fast, I have to bend everything society to fit my car. And when someone gets caught for a DUI, judges go lenient because they know that taking away their license will obliterate their means to work and live.

> So we are going to need very good public mass transit options, and IMO some kind of vast network of professional drivers that are more affordable than Uber

Sort of. We need denser cities and mixed-use neighborhoods so that people can live close to the goods and services they need. Transit is a feasible problem as evidenced by Europe and Asia. No society has operated under the assumption of a vast network of professional private vehicle drivers (so, disregard bus drivers).

> go "the last mile" (more like 10-50)

That's the problem. We have to stop designing cities like that.

Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic, the recent Boeing 737 incident should be considered a gift from the heavens. Which I think is actually a good way to look at it, though we don’t yet know whether this gift will be squandered.

I think a company taking things seriously would view it as a gift from the heavens, but the fact that Boeing is seeking an exemption for certification doesn't really seem like they're putting safety ahead of profits.

On the other hand their customers and regulators are taking it seriously, which will enable mitigation.

Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#239
post #5

This is the first time I've heard of "just culture" and wish it would spread to other areas of the world and life.

This system does in fact work very well for aviation in the USA. But I think we can't just blindly apply it to everything everywhere, assuming it will work the same. We should be able to consider what cultural factors allow it to work and what might cause it to fail. Among those reasons:

* It expects everybody in the organization to be earnest rule-followers doing the best they can to achieve the goals of their organization. The uncaring, reckless, rebellious, etc people have been screened out of the organization long before it gets to that point.

* It expects that the whole organization has cultural unity. Nobody is trying to hoard status, power, influence, etc for one subset of the organization at the expense of another.

* It expects that the organization as a whole is not, and does not perceive itself to be, under attack from hostile outside forces. Organizations can effectively fear being blamed and destroyed just as well as individuals can.

Re: Why you've never been in a plane crash

#240
post #33
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the number of data breaches we see cropping up, I wonder if a similar law could be written to hold companies liable for the safe handling of personal data.

TBH having software engineer output in general be liable to some minimum safety, correctness and quality standard would be a god send for the world. But of course the developers will revolt against that.

Our employers will revolt because we will either cost more or be slower.

The price of an developer is already very high compared to other skilled labor

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