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IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

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Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#231

Post by mrguyorama »

giantg2 wrote: post #188
yesdocs wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people forget that a 40 hour work week exists because of unions? Did we forget that having weekends off and holidays off was not a thing until unions? Did we also forget that children were put to work at a young age until unions?

I think many well-off people just don't care. They might support them in a poll but question their utility in a specific sector like software. Or how another commentor said they weren't concerned about competing with people writting c grade code in India since they have been writing software for 20 years. I don't think unionizing will help with off-shoring for development. I do think unionizing could bring about more…

No, a huge amount of Americans are actively hostile to unions as a concept. The very idea that employees should be able to negotiate as a block instead of individually has been scapegoated as basically all of society's ills.

Consider the common refrain: I'd rather negotiate for myself

It's like, a fundamental misunderstanding of how power dynamics work, as if you as a solo person in a 1000 person company could somehow EVER be more valuable to the company than the entire labor pool.

Newsflash: If your company doesn't throw a fit any time you try to take time off, like CEO comes and talks to you personally fit, they think they could replace you just fine. 40 years of project management has attempted to build things just for that.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#232

Post by mrguyorama »

closeparen wrote: post #176
coolThingsFirst wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bartender makes same as a software engineer in NL

Yes, that's what economic equality means.

"But but but but my CV enlarging JS framework wankery for the spotify of deli meats is obviously so much more valuable to people than a bartender!"

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#233

Post by tymscar »

hooverd wrote: post #216
thomascgalvin wrote: post #212

> Based on analysis of US Bureau of Labor Statistics data by Janco, news that the IT industry added just 700 jobs following an estimated 262,242 jobs lost amid mass layoffs is shocking, but not surprising. So it isn't that only 700 jobs were created, it's that despite the massive layoffs everyone is reporting on and focusing on, there was actually a small net positive in job growth. > Currently, there are almost 100K…

How many of those 100K unfilled jobs are real?

Way closer to 0 than to 100k

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#234

Post by freedude »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #218

So if it wasn't for jobs added in December it would've been negative. On the bright side, given the large number of tech jobs added in December, maybe things are starting to picking up again? (seems a bit odd as usually there's not much hiring going on around the holidays, yet in 2023 December had the highest hiring numbers according to that data)

With the current state of reporting, I would expect those numbers to be revised down like they did for the last year or so.

It seems for the last year or two the numbers are revised down once or twice after they are released.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#236

Post by microtherion »

freedude wrote: post #234
UncleOxidant wrote: post #218

So if it wasn't for jobs added in December it would've been negative. On the bright side, given the large number of tech jobs added in December, maybe things are starting to picking up again? (seems a bit odd as usually there's not much hiring going on around the holidays, yet in 2023 December had the highest hiring numbers according to that data)

With the current state of reporting, I would expect those numbers to be revised down like they did for the last year or so. It seems for the last year or two the numbers are revised down once or twice after they are released.

For the last year, yes, in all but one month the numbers ended up being revised down.

In 2022, there were slightly more months (7) with upward revisions than downward (5)

https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cesnaicsrev.htm

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#237

Post by achates »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #157
lgleason wrote: post #113

Yet many still deny there is an issue with jobs and keep asking for more lenient immigration policies. There is no shortage of IT workers. There is/was a shortage of workers who were willing to work for peanuts.

How people still believe that importing masses of immigrants from poorer nations who are used to a fraction of the standard of living and will be contempt with much less money has no effect on employment / wages is beyond me.

We even have an example of what a train wreck it is in Canada, with stagnant productivity, a housing bubble and overcrowded public services. But we're determined to make the exact same mistakes.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#238

Post by [deleted] »

pc86 wrote: post #114
1-6 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s still horrible and lots of people at large companies are worried of getting laid off any second.

Is it horrible or is it reversion to the mean? Post-COVID hiring and pay was completely unsustainable, and I'm shocked it lasted as many years as it did. You can't look at years of largesse and then when we get back to reality lament about how it's so horrible.

[deleted]

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#239

Post by throwfish3000 »

pc86 wrote: post #162
giantg2 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in general, what do you think an alternate job would be for an ex-dev (without spending 10s of thousands on reschooling)? Seems like retail, warehouses, and other unskilled labor are the main options. Even something like teaching would require a certification.

Basically anything tech-adjacent - product, "business analysts," management. Maybe something like tech writing but there are going to a lot of decent devs who make terrible tech writers so that's much more on an individual basis. And then there's the devs who still code but that's not their focus - SDET, devrel, that sort of thing. Devrel would actually probably be the easiest thing to get into with a few years' fore…

I'm looking to switch into IT from teaching. The job security in teaching is the best but half of my colleagues are in psychotherapy. Last year we had 30% of our teachers on leave. It's not a happy life unless you're a social butterfly and unless you enjoy yelling at kids.

Can't wait till I'm out.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#240

Post by nostrademons »

deadghost wrote: post #185
orochimaaru wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of big-co are setting up subsidiaries overseas and hiring there. It's different from the contract based offshoring model that happened in 2007 or so which had rather disastrous results. I know my company has and plans to have almost 1/2 its IT workforce as direct employees overseas.

My previous company was doing this. I basically quit out of frustration. They weren't much better than picking random people off the street and pointing them at code. It bled into my work life when they took over a project I was on and was pinging me constantly with "hello" and "good morning" expecting to jump on calls with their teams to explain exactly how to do their jobs. An example to illustrate what I was worki…

My company's doing apprenticeships; take somebody with no CS education, not even a college degree, and teach them to code.

It's an interesting model, I remember folks on HN calling for more companies to try it since it seems to have had some success in Germany, but I predict a lot more security bugs and unmaintainable code in the near future.

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